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 Post subject: Latest on the NEW Cast Cylinders!!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:40 pm 
Hello Fellow Club member and Future Club Members:<p>In an effort to continue discussion and elude to some of the latest ideas we, i.e., the foundry and I have been discussing let's give this some thought.<p>After talking to him for some time this week he has agreed that if the "cylinder" is a single unit, i.e., one cylinder for all four corners of the engine he is reconsidering it very strongly. After I explained my idea for the two-into-one intake design he understood that using 4 piston inducted cylinders would work well. This inturn makes all of them the same cylinder. A far less of an investment, around $15K instead of $30K to setup and do it.<p>Here's the kicker. The cylinders would be built with bigbore in mind! To the tune of nearly 1200cc big bore. He's confident, as he has a 500 bottomend sitting on his shop floor he can stroke the cranks 6mm and maybe 10mm with some epoxy reinforcement, which he assures me is standard practice on several Banshee racers throughtout the country now. Big bore as in 60mm stroke by 77mm bore. The math says that's 1117cc, or nearly 280cc per cylinder. The big bore idea stems to people using the 500 motor in sand rails and sand buggies all over the country wanting big two-stroke 4 cylinder power in a modestly light powerplant with a transmission instead of a snowmobile clutch. The big bore could also be used for drag racing, openclass track days and openclass vintage racing as well.<p>Here's what I NEED to know from the club members and non club members. Who is really interested and would purchase at a minimum a base 500cc or slightly over 500cc kit if it were available and at a reasonable price? As of right now this kit would include the following:<p>1. 4 new casting cylinders and pistons.<br>2. 2 new billet aluminum 2-into-1 intake manifolds<br>3. 2 new either Mikuni TMX 38-44mm, depending on what works best, flatslide carbs.<br>4. Lower cylinder billet aluminum case reed block off plate.<br>5. New bits for the cooling system changes.<p>Custom work to be performed by me would include machining of OEM heads to be used with a different cooling setup and milled to set squish and or higher compression. The new cylinders would allow for OEM or any of the popular brands of chambers to bolt right up like OEM.<p>I can't even begin to quote a cost for the new items at this point. However, I can say it would be cheaper and will have more performance as a bolt on than my Phase III or IV engines produce now with 34mm rounds and Toomeys.<p>So, whose interested, whose tire kicking. Reason I ask is I need some investors to make it all happen. Unfortunately I can't sport all the startup money myself but if we pool our $ into this very promising enterprise I'm confident that it will be a huge success.<p>With that I ask of you two things:<p>1. Post back here on the BBS if you would be willing to purchase and even excited about purchasing such a kit or even the costlier bigger bore ideas.<p>2. Email me direct if your willing to trust and put confidence in such an undertaking and more importantly willing to help get it done financially.<p>I look forward to hearing from you all on this awesome opportunity.<p>Regards,<br>Bill Wilson<br>Wilson Performance<br>Lee's Summit, MO<br>Member RZ500 Owners Group #573
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WVWRZ500N@aol.com


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 Post subject: Re: Latest on the NEW Cast Cylinders!!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:22 pm 
Philosophically, I would say that the best chance to recoup initial investment is to design a kit that could be bolted on by most guys in their garages. This means if you have a good bottom end, you could bolt this top end on, fire it up and procede to scare people. Going to 1200cc is something that not very many would get a chance to use. If you can take the stock top end off, put new pistons on, put the new barells on, new intake manifolds and carbs on, new throttle cables on, pipes, and fire it up, you would sell a lot. If you had to change the cranks, weld or epoxy the cases, or any such work that most back-yarders couldn't do, you will sell few kits. Again, an increase to, say, 700cc would be sufficient for a power increase to make everybody happy, except those seriously demented; those who never have enough HP, since the throttle works both ways......... :)<p>Paul K
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paulkjeweler@sbcglobal.net


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 Post subject: Re: Latest on the NEW Cast Cylinders!!!
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 11:34 pm 
I will definitely buy a kit, either 500cc or up to 700cc without modification of crank.
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wolfgang_hromada@aon.at


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 Post subject: Re: Latest on the NEW Cast Cylinders!!!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:10 am 
Bill<br>I agree with Paul K.<br>I'd go with a ''bolt on'' kit just because I haven't the facilities to do any serious machinery and I'd need to do all the work in the garage.<br>I'll be watching the message board for any future updates.<br>Faster Faster.<br>Andy<br>FRC<br>
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andrew.lord@vacon.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Latest on the NEW Cast Cylinders!!!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:52 am 
Count me in also, probably for 2. I think Paul is correct about doing a pretty much bolt on set up to appeal to the greatest number of guys which is what we need to make this happen. Plus could anybody really ride a 1200cc 2stroke V4? I don't even think my Spondon frame could handle that. When I was doing my project I think they said a 4mm stroker crank was doible when I was trying to make a full 750. At any rate this whole discussion is great and if we pull together and make this happen it would be fantastic.
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gpkotbh@aol.com


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 Post subject: Re: Latest on the NEW Cast Cylinders!!!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:57 am 
Hi Bill Im in for 500cc or 700cc not 1200 thanks Thomas from Toronto.
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tkatsaras@sprint.com


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 Post subject: Re: Latest on the NEW Cast Cylinders!!!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:26 pm 
Bill,<br>Wow!I dont know quite where to begin!I have lots of questions.I have been reading all the posts and I am very impressed with all the enthusiasm and excitement.<br>I would love to be part of such a history-making venture,however I dont imagine I'm the only one who would need to know more before letting go of handfulls of money.<br>First of all,who is this guy that says he can pull this off?Does he have a website we can all look at to see some of his previous work?What has he done in the past that would compare to this?Has he made cylinders from scratch?Does he build RZ500 engines for sand racers?<br>Secondly,you mentioned this would be cheaper and have more performance than your Phase 3 or 4 kits.Can you describe what your kits are?Are these kits the finished products of your "120 HP project"?I was enjoying reading about the progress you were making on this project but never heard the out-come.Where are you at with that project?I would think that lots of RZ500 owners would be plenty happy with 120 HP.I know I would.How much $$$ is your kit?<br>Thirdly,Do you think there is enough room in the"V" for 2 big carbs like that or are you planning something else?<br>Just a few questions,<br>Art
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4munsons@comcast.net


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 Post subject: Re: Latest on the NEW Cast Cylinders!!!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:31 pm 
Oh yeah,another question I had was do you think the gearbox and clutch will hold up to such large amounts of power?
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4munsons@comcast.net


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 Post subject: Re: Latest on the New Cast Cylinders!!!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:54 pm 
Bill,pencil me in for a Project "RZ Foundry HP" kit or 2 !! your attention to detail and workmanship is second to none and I have no doubt this motor upgrade will be any different from any of your previous rz engine work,just the thought of twisting the throttle on a real bolt on 120-150 hp kit sounds excellent !! I know it will not happen over night but have any ideas when or how this will move to the next phase of development $$
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creswell5@cableone.net


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 Post subject: Re: Latest on the NEW Cast Cylinders!!!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:41 pm 
Add me to the list please. Could get machining done - but bolt on has a lot of appeal.
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sf@rhencullen.co.uk


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 Post subject: Re: Latest on the NEW Cast Cylinders!!!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 12:32 am 
Bill,<br>do you have an idea already of how the power valves could be designed at these new cast cylinders? Is it possible to use the stock ones and just modify the pulley- and link configuration? The pulley which is now in the V would need to be removed, a configuration as on Mike Cichettis bike would be a possible alternative.<br>Also, an airbox would be a nice option but the design would eventually depend on the frame and bodywork used.
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wolfgang_hromada@aon.at


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 Post subject: Re: Latest on the NEW Cast Cylinders!!!
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:17 am 
Yamaha is famous/notorious for doing "existing engineering", where if they have something that is close, but maybe just a little too strong, they go ahead and use it. Case in point is the clutch in the RZ500, which is the same size as the TZ750/OW31 series of race bikes from the dark ages that made in the 145hp range. The difference is that they were dry clutches, as these are wet. Having had several friends who raced those things, the one thing I don't ever remember them having trouble with were the clutches. We used to go through tech lines with a shop cloth in hand, and ask the Kawasaki and Honda riders the following: "do you know how you work on a Yamaha?"; they would sneer at us, we would smile, say, "like this", then pretend to polish the tank. Very reliable pieces. The clutches should be no problem.<p>Paul K.
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paulkjeweler@sbcglobal.net


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Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 12 posts ] 

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