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 Post subject: Production Numbers
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:09 pm 
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If Wikipedia is to be trusted, these are the RG500/RG400 production numbers.

Is this fact or fiction?


Model 1985 1986 1987 Total

RG500 7340 1412 532 9284
RG400 5002 863 348 6213


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_RG500


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 Post subject: Re: Production Numbers
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:14 pm 
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The sources listed for the article are of little value in determining production numbers for the RG.

I would estimate total production to be near 10,000 for the 500 (export and domestic) and 4000 for the Japan market 400.

The numbers listed for the 1987 production run (RG500CH models old as '88 and '89s) seem improbable since they were offered in 4 different markets which would split the sales to an undesirable number per market for spares management.

Canada received 980 RG's total with UK, OZ, FR, IT, GM, and Japan each taking at least similar numbers of the '85/'86 production runs.
The CH bikes were only sold in UK, IT, FR and GM.

The Wikipedia numbers aren't unrealistic, I just haven't encountered a source that lists them and am not sure if the true numbers are known by anyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Production Numbers
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:33 pm 
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Thank you Rick.

Mine is an 86 Cdn model and being new to the bike I'm trying to learn as much as I can.

I was comparing weights in the RG and RZ manuals today and was surprised that the RG is much lighter. The RG is listed at 154 KG (338.8 Lbs) dry and the RZ at 439 Lbs wet. If you add 36 Lbs to the Gamma for a wet weight of 374 Lbs it's still 65 lbs lighter than the RZ500. 65Lbs is more than significant.


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 Post subject: Re: Production Numbers
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:23 pm 
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silverstrom wrote:
Thank you Rick.

Mine is an 86 Cdn model and being new to the bike I'm trying to learn as much as I can.

I was comparing weights in the RG and RZ manuals today and was surprised that the RG is much lighter. The RG is listed at 154 KG (338.8 Lbs) dry and the RZ at 439 Lbs wet. If you add 36 Lbs to the Gamma for a wet weight of 374 Lbs it's still 65 lbs lighter than the RZ500. 65Lbs is more than significant.


Dude you aint kidding, the RZ is a tank by comparision...lol The RG500 is lighter than a RZ350, 30 lbs lighter!!! people are always going on & harping on the h.p. of the RG, but the weight has more to do with it as far as I'm concerned. Same enginerring princibles as the 85-86 GSXR750...LIGHTWEIGHT & BADASS!

I recommended my friend buy Lances airfilter kit etc..for his newly acquired 86 RG about a year ago, Now it purrs like a kitten nice & crisp.
Its been 25 yrs since I rode a RG, I took it for a spin..& it scared me...lol When it hits its stride...YOU KNOW IT, like a punch to the nose!

"Competition between friends" , I'm aiming my RZ350 project to be faster on the road than his RG,that ride reminded me that it wont be easy..or should I say its actually quite easy...but expensive...lol The RG still would have a sizeable top end advantage. So I may have to just deal with it...lol

Great bikes! If they had only sold the RZ & RG here in the states, it would have changed everything. Those of us who wanted them like me & you folks got them anyways, but they would have sold like hotcakes at a church charity function

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 Post subject: Re: Production Numbers
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:24 am 
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Questo vecchio rz wrote:
, I'm aiming my RZ350 project to be faster on the road than his RG,that ride reminded me that it wont be easy..or should I say its actually quite easy...but expensive...lol The RG still would have a sizeable top end advantage. So I may have to just deal with it...lol


The problem with the RZ350 is that no matter what you do to it you'll still have that hinged in the middle feeling when pushing it in the corners. Can't hold a line and wandering like a drunken pig. I've owned more than a dozen 350s. Built some stock, built some modified. Lots of fun and a real thrill to ride, but a precision machine they will never be. Now I don't have one in my collection. I've found the easiest way to get more power and better handling is to buy a better bike :smt003


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 Post subject: Re: Production Numbers
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:16 pm 
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silverstrom wrote:
Thank you Rick.

Mine is an 86 Cdn model and being new to the bike I'm trying to learn as much as I can.

I was comparing weights in the RG and RZ manuals today and was surprised that the RG is much lighter. The RG is listed at 154 KG (338.8 Lbs) dry and the RZ at 439 Lbs wet. If you add 36 Lbs to the Gamma for a wet weight of 374 Lbs it's still 65 lbs lighter than the RZ500. 65Lbs is more than significant.


20lbs of that is the steel frame versus the alloy frame of the RZV - which is all Yamaha seemed to really care about LOL.

Add the wider wheels and tires (120/130 with 18" rear vs 110/120 with 17" rear) and even the 40lbs difference of the RG vs RZV is easily explained - and looking back at the Japanese street scene, few RGs and RZVs remained stock any way.

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 Post subject: Re: Production Numbers
PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 11:59 pm 
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silverstrom wrote:
Questo vecchio rz wrote:
, I'm aiming my RZ350 project to be faster on the road than his RG,that ride reminded me that it wont be easy..or should I say its actually quite easy...but expensive...lol The RG still would have a sizeable top end advantage. So I may have to just deal with it...lol


The problem with the RZ350 is that no matter what you do to it you'll still have that hinged in the middle feeling when pushing it in the corners. Can't hold a line and wandering like a drunken pig. I've owned more than a dozen 350s. Built some stock, built some modified. Lots of fun and a real thrill to ride, but a precision machine they will never be. Now I don't have one in my collection. I've found the easiest way to get more power and better handling is to buy a better bike :smt003


Oh I've been there & done that, Ive had far better bikes and do own a far superior machine now...but as you know the 2 stroke...is where its at after all these years, its always the most fun hands down.

Well on this subject, were gonna have to agree to disagree :smt003 I dont know about you, but a RZ350 will run circles around a 500, they handle better...WAYyyyy better and there is no hinge in the frame feeling...I kinda liken that to a internet wivestale at least as far as were concerned.
Perhaps bone stock, without a stabilizer, correct tires, revalve kit & the trusty old FOX twin clicker. I've always had good suspension & had professionals set my bikes up both suspension & jetting, In 30 years I've never had major issues w either, only when I think I know better...lol
For the record, on any sportbike present build or future I'm a radial tire guy, I dont get on well with skinny bias ply & aggressive riding.
.
I know quite a few RZ guys including me whom have had both the 500 & 350s, and thats one thing we all agree on us the 350s ability. We all kind of roll our eyes when the flexi frame is brought up. Some of these guys( not me) are capable of beating many guys on liter bikes here in So Cal canyons on built RD400s & there even faster on their 350s or RGVs & NSR250s & two have streetable TZs... There nuts, talented ...but nuts!

Take 100 lbs off a 500 by whatever means possible or a hybrid...then its a whole new machine. Many inspirational builds here ...( HYBRIDS & CUSTOMS thats what fuels this site for many.) I have a complete low mileage late 86 motor w a claimed 6.5k & all electrics...after the trackbike is done...Im gonna build some sort of toy around it.

I just missed out on a complete 96 GSXR SRAD bike less motor for $400.00...oh how sweet that would gave been.

I purposely didnt tell my friend about it as he would have certainlly gutted his Gamma to do that swap. That would have been a shame as the 86 Gamma is quite nice. I saved a Gamma from certain death.

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 Post subject: Re: Production Numbers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:30 am 
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Questo vecchio rz wrote:
I know quite a few RZ guys including me whom have had both the 500 & 350s, and thats one thing we all agree on us the 350s ability. We all kind of roll our eyes when the flexi frame is brought up. Some of these guys( not me) are capable of beating many guys on liter bikes here in So Cal canyons on built RD400s & there even faster on their 350s or RGVs & NSR250s & two have streetable TZs.

Not bone stock they are not. And once a bike is modded/built/tweaked it is not longer the base bike ;) Even a stock 1KT/2MA TZR250 will out handle a stock RZ350.

I had a new RZ350 YPVS back in the day. It was just another budget middle weight 2 stroke lined up against all the rest.

The bike handled like a wet noodle with a hinge right behind the tank :) Great in a straight line but horribly unstable at triple digit speeds in fast sweepers, off camber down hill mountain passes etc. The fork mounted fairing and clocks made the bike unbearable in anything but urban stop light to stoplight. After I smashed it to bits as most of them where, I got an RG250 Gamma - now that was a light weight very well handling bike right out the box.

By the time I got round to looking at a used RG500 or RZ500, the then new 1987 FZ750 and GSXR750 and for the rich boys the RC30 where the better choices and at that time the RG and RZ (and even NS400) where just a bunch of 2 to 3 year old used bikes with 40 too few HP than the 750's --- if only I had just bought one and stuck it in the shed... LOL

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 Post subject: Re: Production Numbers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 1:56 am 
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Questo vecchio rz wrote:
there is no hinge in the frame feeling...I kinda liken that to a internet wivestale at least as far as were concerned.


As I said, I've owned, built and modified many 350s. More than a dozen over 4 years or so. The first one I bought was a shiny new 1984. I've yet to ride one that didn't feel like it was hinged in the middle. If you modify and trellis the frame it helps, but in stock form I'm not a fan. For the thrill of it, yes they are a hoot, and when properly built with plenty of power, good suspension and modified brakes they get better, but at the end of the day, it's still a very basic bike with a very basic frame.

Some of my recent projects. All were hinged in the middle. I don't see myself owning another one.

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 Post subject: Re: Production Numbers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:17 am 
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Silverstrom, Pretty bikes shows alot of love & care!

As far as the percived frame issues & handling, the basic platform w some mods seems to work for me just fine as well as countless 1000s of club racers..its a great proven lil package. IMO this cant really be argued as the 350 was one of the most successfully campaigned club racers of all time? "A billion Chinamen cant be wrong" Even Schwantz, Doohan, and many others famous guys raced em with great success.
Seriouslly though, some folks just take to some machines differently than the guy next to them. Its funny, how some just dont feel comfortable on certain bikes myself included. People used to rave about Ninja 600s but I couldnt get to that point on one, then of all bikes... the 1st generation CBR900RR people love em, I hate em..perhaps its the 16" wheel thing & tire profile. Perfect example of what were talking about. However I remember riding VFR500s & a 86 FZ600 and effortlessly laying down streaks of melting fairing material in sweepers, absolutley wonderful handling machines.

I've viewed many RZs w the steel plate like RZs Unlimited offer, but never a trellis on a serious track or canyon RZ, But I see no reason it wouldnt work either.
The RZs perimiter frame is a darned good design, its almost a exact duplicate of the TZ chassis, and they hold down a easy 30 -50 mph top speed advantage with no real troubles. The design is used by many other great sportbikes as well. These bikes will be running the stickest 17" narrow width 160-120 tire combination, So this bike is getting slightly more reinforcement in two areas I feel will help with modern rubber, still I feel confidant it wont add much more stress than running old 18" slicks at ( high speed). Its going to be primarilly a (fun) track day toy, not a race bike. I've been around Willow Springs big track, likley the fastest road course in America with turns 8-9 flat out, The old RZs did pretty well, wind was always a problem there, (of course the bikini fairings removed) :smt023 also front tire chatter too! it could get schetchy at times, but the FZR & GSXR are equally unnerving as well, (at least for myself & some friends) its scary as its flat out 5-6 gears for a long long ways while banked That track demanded that you have proper setup.
I try not to be too serious as there are some seriouslly fast guys and girls who could clean my clock on vintage machines 15 years older than a RZ and far more dated chassis. Also I cant hold on at a race pace for longer than 15-20 min before arm pump/ carpal tell me play time is over.

Its all relative,

Again great lil bikes, you had there. Nice to see you recently fixing up all these old bikes & providing others with the opportunity to relive their youth. :smt023. The LC/ RZ community needs more indaviduals whom show care and attention to detail into their rebuilds.

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 Post subject: Re: Production Numbers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:46 pm 
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The RZV frame is 11 pounds lighter than the steel RZ unit. Both use the same steel subframe.

The RZ500 motor assembly is 17 pounds heavier than the RG motor. Good luck closing that gap.
(I just weighed complete motor assemblies for the Gamma and RZ5 which included carbs, kickstart, stator and PV systems. The previous 35# number was from a comparison which included exhaust systems.)

The Gamma is 60 pounds lighter than the RZV in stock form.



Quote:
20lbs of that is the steel frame versus the alloy frame of the RZV - which is all Yamaha seemed to really care about LOL.

Add the wider wheels and tires (120/130 with 18" rear vs 110/120 with 17" rear) and even the 40lbs difference of the RG vs RZV is easily explained - and looking back at the Japanese street scene, few RGs and RZVs remained stock any way.

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Last edited by Rick Lance on Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Production Numbers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 2:36 pm 
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Rick Lance wrote:
The RZV frame is 11 pounds lighter than the steel RZ unit. Both use the same steel subframe.

The RZ500 motor assembly is 35 pounds heavier than the RG motor. Good luck closing that gap.

The Gamma is 60 pounds lighter than the RZV in stock form.



20lbs of that is the steel frame versus the alloy frame of the RZV - which is all Yamaha seemed to really care about LOL.

Add the wider wheels and tires (120/130 with 18" rear vs 110/120 with 17" rear) and even the 40lbs difference of the RG vs RZV is easily explained - and looking back at the Japanese street scene, few RGs and RZVs remained stock any way.


Not wanting to get into a pissing match here but the 2 claimed manufacturer weights (as borne out by brochures, books and the recent Replica publication that involved copious amounts of research and interviews directly with Yamaha and Suzuki engineers and designers) are 156kg RG and 173kg RZV.

That's hardly 60lbs. It is actually 37.4lbs to be precise. The claimed weight of the RZ/RD is 180kg - that is a 52.8lb difference.

I think the real discrepancy in all these numbers is the rather ambitious under declaring of the RGs weight for promotional and sales purposes :)

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 Post subject: Re: Production Numbers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:00 pm 
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Looking through the brochures I found this

RZ500 dry weight is 397 lbs.

RG500 dry weight is 154 kg (338.8 lbs.) Suzuki rounds up to 340 lbs.

Using actual weights 397-340 = 57 lbs.

Note the RZ350 is 326 lbs dry.


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 Post subject: Re: Production Numbers
PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 10:29 pm 
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Found this online and thought it was pretty cool

I must remember to get a shot of mine lined up like that.


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 Post subject: RG vs. RZ
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:34 pm 
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A member in this forum once said. Have an RG500 next to the RZ500. Then try to do for the RZ what the RG has. My wife was the one that brought from Japan the oil tank that go under the seat. The RG500 has the oil tank under the seat :cool:

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