Spec 2 Chambers

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MK
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Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#31 Post by MK » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:21 pm

Wolfgang, I build them on my own as a kind of fun project.
I started building RZ350 pipes in 2011 and this one was done in 2013 as a paid welding practice ;-)
If you want to enjoy the build-thread (need to log in to see pics):
http://forum.rd350lc.de/viewtopic.php?t=20172" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Usually I do the layout on my own, but with the RD500 I kind of cheated: The dxf's were given to me by Wayne Wright (the technical brain behind TSS). He said the bike he did with those pipes did > 120 RWHP in full gear (porting, carbs, ignition)
The diameter is really huge and they had to be dented at the back side to clear the sub frame. If it was mine, I'd have done a new one, but that was not in the budget.
BTW: As far as I know there's still one set of lasered stainless sheets for sale from the bike owner.

And please do not start another pipe war. I'm fed of that.
It always starts with people insisting that pipe A is the best and the builder is such a nice and knowledgeable guy and for that reason all the rest must be crap. Unfortunately other people say the same about pipe B and off you go ....

There is no such thing as "the best" pipe. There's always at least a couple of people being able to do quite similar quality of performance/welding/design.
At the end it's the service that counts and I'd always pick the tuner nearby who can do a setup on his own dyno.
I strongly doubt that the discussed "straight is the way to go" will be noticed in direct comparison. Especially on a tractor like the RZ500 - remember we're not talking about > 50HP from 125 cc, where this makes a difference.

I only criticise the long upper cans, nothing less, nothing more.
Bye
Martin

Questo vecchio rz
Posts: 198
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:36 pm

Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#32 Post by Questo vecchio rz » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:55 pm

Dont want to have a pissing contest, over a irrefutable topic. Proabably best just to say naysayes live in your world, some of us will live in ours.
It may be news to some that there is an entire industry devoted to varoius silencer makes and options, silencers certainlly can and do affect the power characteristics, it's utterly silly to state that it does not. And not accurate to state that its irrefutable that they cannot. A lifetime spent in and around 2 -stroke dirt bikes confirms otherwise Pro Circut, FMF,and DOZENS of others are there for anyone to use
It does not realistically " add" nor "detract" power, but can indeed affect the tuned length through back pressure/sound waves and scavenging etc.. which has an effect however ...small it may be , sometimes its more noticable. A diffrent length silencer in my experience generally does not alter the powerband to the same level of change that a few millimeters in the pipe will have.
I don't think many really understand just how sensitive even the smallest dimension change will make to a 2-strokes powerband. Banshees, 250Rs,KXs,YZs,CRs and even RZs etc..are living proof that smallest of changes on a pipe ,even silencer length and "packing" density will in many cases on some pipes alter the powerband characteristics, yes some pipe designs more than others.
And Giron: Your not mistaken , many a TZ, RS,NSR, RGV, RG and RZ often used diffrent pipes for diffrent circuts. More so on full race bikes with 2000 rpm powerband wondows and tight gearbox ratios , but not unhestd of on well sorted production racers, a fact Brian and many a GP or AMA level motocross tuner will undoubtedly confirm. That's all common knowledge. But for your average street going 2 stroke, which is generally fairly stock in spec, the need for such a variety of powerband choices, is frankly not needed as the riding environment is no where as varied, but make no mistake, it's still a 2-stroke and the ability for variance is definatly there. RZ350 are a another obvious area of proof, same bike with diffrent makes of aftermarket pipes deliver large diffrences in where and when power is delivered. Many of the various diffrent pipes were so awfully close dimensionally, but the results on the asphalt are quite diffrent once the right wrist was twisted.
Great topic, on these various pipes, what's nice to see is that 30 years on there is dtill a pipe available for just about any desired appearance or power delivery.
Banshee (Baja) Full Tilt desert race bike
Royal Enfield 500
96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura TT-F1 Lucky Strike rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ421/YZR track bike(project)
86 VFR750 Flying Fred Merkel replica (project)

eyeamok
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:00 am

Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#33 Post by eyeamok » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:13 pm

Ok, so I read all the comments, When Gary originally built the 500 pipes way back when, the uppers were fatter and shorter. The problem was after an hour or so the fairings became part of the pipes, even with all the insulation you could stuff in. Most people wanted to keep the stock rear fairings on their bikes , so He redesigned them. Gary is and always has been about 'performance" with being pretty second. Both of my 400's that he did are real screamers.

Performance wise, they have had a tremendous improvement in Midrange and just plain all the way through the powerband, ANd I am very satisfied with the way they perform.

I look at it like this, My Wife may not be a 10 any more, but she performs like you wouldn't believe.

vdrive
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:17 am

Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#34 Post by vdrive » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:28 pm

what about Jackal chambers made in japan ? only seen them once on a RZ500

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giron
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Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#35 Post by giron » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:16 am

I had a set of jackal pipes. I traded for parts to Ken Smith on this forum.
1991 3MATZR250SP
!993 3XVTZR250SP
1996 RGV250(Lucky Strike)
1994 MC28SP
1995 MC28SP
1996 MC28SP
1985 RG500(Walter Wolfe)
1984 IT490
1985 RZV500R
1985 NS400R
1985 NS400R
1997 VFR750
1992 FZR1000
RGV400
TZR500
TZR350
1990 RZ350
1971 Porsche911S

vdrive
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:17 am

Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#36 Post by vdrive » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:13 am

did you like the fitment ? thanks in advance .

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2smoke
Posts: 662
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:18 am
Location: Niagara, Ontario,Canada

Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#37 Post by 2smoke » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:25 am

vdrive wrote:did you like the fitment ? thanks in advance .
I have them on my bike. They fit and work awesome. The top cans stick out the back a little but not like these spec2 s.
Check out my thread called "my ride".
Colin

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ns86
Posts: 833
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:46 pm
Location: ontario canada

Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#38 Post by ns86 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:16 pm

My 2 cents again. I don't think stinger length has much affect on pipe performance. It's the last tapered cones distance from the cylinder before the stinger that times the reverse pulse to the cylinder intake charge, not the length of the stinger or the minimal effect of the silencer. The Silencer length only matters if there is denser packing or baffling to make them unequal in back pressure. That could make a difference but my different length silencers on my RG500 JL pipes have little if any difference in resistance. Jl's also have long stingers on the lowers VS uppers. 1988 vs 1989 nsr250 had huge difference in stinger length. Vdue also had long stingers. As far as straight pipes there are few examples of straight chambers and flow dynamics are rarely straight in the real world regardless. Most of the best performing racers have very convoluted pipe layout but perform amazingly. YZR500/NSR500/RGV500 like my RG500 JL pipes have different length stingers and silencers on upper/lower pipes, usually several inches difference minimum. I am no expert, simply observing, but that's how the GP bikes are?
1985 RZ500
1986 RG500
1986 RG500 C
1992 RGV500 WW ATR
1992 RGV500 LS
1985 NS500 Spencer p
1989 TZR500 Biaggi p
1984 RZV500 Rainey p
1994 NSR250sp R
1983 NS250 p
1987 RG250 WW p
1983 RG250 p
1988 YSR50 p

vdrive
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:17 am

Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#39 Post by vdrive » Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:44 am

Hi Colin , many thanks for the information , I really like the Jackal chambers . looks very nice indeed . kind regards Andrew

kenny
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 6:20 pm

Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#40 Post by kenny » Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:36 pm

These are what Im developing more and more.
Image
Image

They produced this too. The Blue curve are my pipes the other is Jolly Moto
Image

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Smoker
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Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#41 Post by Smoker » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:32 pm

Respect to Kenny for posting pics and dyno numbers. :smt023

How many pipe fabricators have the stones to do that?

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giron
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Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#42 Post by giron » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:49 pm

the dyno numbers are very impressive. Will the dyno numbers tells us a happy medium for any city streets in the world?
1991 3MATZR250SP
!993 3XVTZR250SP
1996 RGV250(Lucky Strike)
1994 MC28SP
1995 MC28SP
1996 MC28SP
1985 RG500(Walter Wolfe)
1984 IT490
1985 RZV500R
1985 NS400R
1985 NS400R
1997 VFR750
1992 FZR1000
RGV400
TZR500
TZR350
1990 RZ350
1971 Porsche911S

vdrive
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:17 am

Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#43 Post by vdrive » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:50 am

very nice indeed.

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giron
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Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#44 Post by giron » Sat Apr 02, 2016 12:44 am

OK Here is a pipe from a YZR500 either Wayne Rainey or Eddie Lawson. I took pictures when I had lunch with Brian yesterday. I can say building pipes is not easy work. When you have to shape the cones. This pipe is a titanium pipe

http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/9elev ... sort=3&o=6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/9elev ... sort=3&o=5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/9elev ... sort=3&o=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



http://s1263.photobucket.com/user/9elev ... sort=3&o=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1991 3MATZR250SP
!993 3XVTZR250SP
1996 RGV250(Lucky Strike)
1994 MC28SP
1995 MC28SP
1996 MC28SP
1985 RG500(Walter Wolfe)
1984 IT490
1985 RZV500R
1985 NS400R
1985 NS400R
1997 VFR750
1992 FZR1000
RGV400
TZR500
TZR350
1990 RZ350
1971 Porsche911S

vdrive
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:17 am

Re: Spec 2 Chambers

#45 Post by vdrive » Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:17 am

really nice expansion chambers .

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