Oil pump cable

[GRA400C]

Hi I'm wondering if the oil pump cable has to be connected to the power valve servo?? What is the reason for it in the first place? Any thoughts are much appreciated.


Garrett

[tacky1]

Yes. It's connected. The reason it's connected is it keeps the pump open when the throttle is rolled off from high revs. It keeps oil running to the engine. Look at the pump when the bike is idling. Rev the bike, blip the throttle and you will see it working.

[GRA400C]

I'm thinking of something similar to my rz350. Only the throttle controls the pump and how much it is opened. Why can't the 500 work the same way? When the throttle is closed have the marks on the pump line up. When you give it has it opens the pump more? Or is that asking for some huge problems?

[phildu31]

Basically the output of the oil pump linearly depends with motor revs.
By adding the throttle cable you add more output with throttle opening.
And by linking this cable with the servo motor you give another offset with power valves opening at high revs.
That's particularly interesting downhill where motor is at high revs and throttle closed for example.
It's difficult to tell if you're at risk without it.
When premix is used, oil running is different.

[tacky1]

I'm thinking of something similar to my rz350. Only the throttle controls the pump and how much it is opened. Why can't the 500 work the same way? When the throttle is closed have the marks on the pump line up. When you give it has it opens the pump more? Or is that asking for some huge problems?

When you turn off the ignition the bike the oil pump lever moves back into the closed position, The YPVS motor moves it to the mark when the ignition is turned on.
I don't understand why you would want to modify this! What are you try to gain or achieve, Its a simple setup that works.
These engines are already prone to rear cylinder problems without modifying how the oil is delivered.

[GRA400C]

I'm thinking of something similar to my rz350. Only the throttle controls the pump and how much it is opened. Why can't the 500 work the same way? When the throttle is closed have the marks on the pump line up. When you give it has it opens the pump more? Or is that asking for some huge problems?

When you turn off the ignition the bike the oil pump lever moves back into the closed position, The YPVS motor moves it to the mark when the ignition is turned on.
I don't understand why you would want to modify this! What are you try to gain or achieve, Its a simple setup that works.
These engines are already prone to rear cylinder problems without modifying how the oil is delivered.

All I'm trying to do is understand why it needs to be ran to the servo. Why can't you have it not hooked up to the servo and the marks line up? Also don't a lot of people lean the pump out anyway? I'm not trying to cause an argument or anything. But want to know why the servo needs to be hooked up.

Garrett

[silverstrom]

The servo needs to be hooked up because it keeps the oil pump operating based on engine RPM and not throttle position only, as it does with your RZ350. Say you're flying along at 150 kph in 4th gear and close the throttle. The bike is still in gear so you still have engine RPM, even though the throttle is closed. With your RZ350 you're doing 150 KPH with the pump metering oil at an idle setting, because that's where your throttle has put the pump cam. With the RZ500 (and TZR) the powervalve servo is still operating and positions the valves based on engine RPM, regardless of throttle position. The oil pump is connected to the servo, so whatever RPM determined position the valves are in, the oil pump follows. So, now you're flying along at 150 KPH on your 500 and you close the throttle. You're still in gear so you still have plenty of engine RPM. Your powervalve servo will control the oil pump output, so you still have plenty of oil even though the throttle is closed. Now, which way do you think is better? Doing 150 KPH with a closed throttle and only idle speed oil being supplied, or doing 150 KPH and having the correct amount of metered oil for your engine speed? It isn't hard to understand when you know how it works. Why would you want to go to a system that doesn't give you the correct amount of oil? That's what you'll get if you remove the powervalve servo from the autolube system. Just leave it alone before it gets expensive.

[phildu31]

John, you seem to forget that the oil pump is driven by the primary gear.
So oil output will always be higher at high revs.
The purpose of linking the servo motor to the oil pump is to give a boost in oil output when power valves are open.
Garrett's first question is a real one and I don't have the answer.

[silverstrom]

John, you seem to forget that the oil pump is driven by the primary gear.
So oil output will always be higher at high revs.
The purpose of linking the servo motor to the oil pump is to give a boost in oil output when power valves are open.
Garrett's first question is a real one and I don't have the answer.

An oil boost when the valves are opened? No, that's not how it works. Not even close.

You don't have the answer because you don't understand how it works. The pump is turned by the primary gear, but the output is not determined by the primary gear. On the RZ350 the pump is turned by the primary gear, but when the throttle is closed oil output drops to idle speed levels, regardless of engine speed and even though the primary gear is turning the pump gear. On the 500 the primary gear turns the oil pump gear, but the amount of oil pushed out of the pump is determined by throttle position and powervalve servo position. So, once again, the primary gear turns the pump gear, but the primary gear has noting to do with the oil volume. Oil volume is determined by throttle position and powervalve servo position and their respective cables acting on the oil pump. All the primary gear does is turn the pump. Nothing more.

[phildu31]

Well .... I'm not going to argue with you on this subject.
For the other guys interested in this subject, here is a technical guide here with some beautiful diagrams :
http://www.rz500.net/RZ%20500%20REFEREN ... ICES_2.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
At page 20, operation of the pump is detailed.....
No news, it's only an oil pump like the ones I ( we ) use since 35 years.

[silverstrom]

I too, have decades of experience. Believe what you want. The rest of us will keep doing it the right way.

The link you provided is interesting. Page 20 clearly explains it just the same way I did, so clearly you fail to understand how it operates.

FFS....I give up. If it isn't clear by now, it never will be.

[phildu31]

So, would you please explain us how the oil output increases with engine speed under 5000 rpms before the power valve open ?
Thanks

[tacky1]

So, would you please explain us how the oil output increases with engine speed under 5000 rpms before the power valve open ?
Thanks

With the throttle cable!!! Like the 350, Same principle....................................

[phildu31]

I hope you're kidding

[silverstrom]

I hope you're kidding

Ok...I said I give up, but here I am, back for more punishment This needs to be settled before people get the wrong information

No, he's not kidding. That is exactly how it works. I don't know why you can't understand it. It's in the manual and it's been explained to you more than once.

I know you think you understand the RZ/RD500 autolube system, but trust me, you don't. You have it wrong. Read the manual again and trust the advice you're getting here. If you still want to believe you are right then stop giving that flawed belief as advice here before some new guy believes what you say.

One more fact for you. The powervalves do not start to open at 5000 RPM. They start to open at 6150 RPM.

And by the way, my TZR250 is exactly the same as the RZ500. The pump stroke is controlled by the throttle and the powervalve servo and both cables control the oil pump output the same way the RZ/RD500 system does. And once again, the primary pinion gear does nothing except rotate the pump to push oil to the cylinders. The amount of oil pushed to the cylinders, or output volume, is controlled by the throttle and YPVS/powervalve servo.