Weight of iron sleeves...

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RC45
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Weight of iron sleeves...

#1 Post by RC45 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:10 pm

...anyone have any guesses as to the weight of the RZ500 iron sleeves?
CBR1000RR SP2 HRC WSBK
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YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
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silverstrom
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Re: Weight of iron sleeves...

#2 Post by silverstrom » Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:27 pm

You may find your answer here https://www.lasleeve.com/tech/re-sleeve-your-cylinder" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RC45
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Re: Weight of iron sleeves...

#3 Post by RC45 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:18 am

Suppose I could just ask then the weight of RZ250 sleeves for a ball park #
CBR1000RR SP2 HRC WSBK
TZ500V/OW53 Track bike
YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
TZ250B 3YL
TZR250 3MA Track Bike
427ci C5 Z07

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Re: Weight of iron sleeves...

#4 Post by silverstrom » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:45 am

TZR250 2MA/2ME/1KT is best. It has the same bore and stroke as the 500.

I'm sure LA sleeve has done many 500 cylinders.

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phildu31
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Re: Weight of iron sleeves...

#5 Post by phildu31 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:44 am

Hi.
I used LAsleeve but didn't measure their weight.
But spent a lot of time to adjust the ports and power valves ...
Dremel was my best friend during one month.

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WVWRZ500N
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Re: Weight of iron sleeves...

#6 Post by WVWRZ500N » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:09 am

I've done one resleeve on a 500 and will not do another one. The liner they send you is 5/16" thick. The ports are not even cut to stock dimensions and major work must be done to open them to even OEM size. Lastly the powervalve bore has to be relieved where the liner overhangs the bore. Hours upon hours of hand grinding with the porting tools.
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RuZty
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Re: Weight of iron sleeves...

#7 Post by RuZty » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:14 am

If you measure the thickness and have a port map it should be pretty easy to calculate the volume and get close.

RC45
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Re: Weight of iron sleeves...

#8 Post by RC45 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:08 pm

Apparently the sleeves weigh in at a little less than 2lbs each.

Does that sound about right?
CBR1000RR SP2 HRC WSBK
TZ500V/OW53 Track bike
YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
TZ250B 3YL
TZR250 3MA Track Bike
427ci C5 Z07

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Re: Weight of iron sleeves...

#9 Post by silverstrom » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:59 pm

Not even close. I have a 56.4 mm rear cylinder on a scale right now. Porting is completely stock. No valve. It's 3 Lbs 13.8 oz. That's 1.75 kg.

Looking at the cylinder here, and I'm not a mechanical engineer, if I was to estimate the sleeve weight I'd put it at around 350g - 400g at most, say around 12-14 ounces. For comparison, I just weighed a speedo and it weighs 12 ounces.

The sleeve is 2 mm thick and 117 mm long. Figure that 1/3 of the material is removed for all ports.

That's my off-the-cuff assessment. Maybe someone here knows more and I'm way off, but right now I think I'm fairly close

Who suggested 2 Lbs for 1 sleeve?
Last edited by silverstrom on Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RC45
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Re: Weight of iron sleeves...

#10 Post by RC45 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:03 pm

I just called LA Sleeve to confirm and the gent was very accommodating - he went and got a Yamaha 125cc iron sleeve as a similar bench mark and weighed the sleeve.

The all up weight was 1.61lbs, not that far off the guesstimate previously offered to me.
CBR1000RR SP2 HRC WSBK
TZ500V/OW53 Track bike
YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
TZ250B 3YL
TZR250 3MA Track Bike
427ci C5 Z07

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Re: Weight of iron sleeves...

#11 Post by silverstrom » Tue Nov 22, 2016 8:17 pm

RC45 wrote:I just called LA Sleeve to confirm and the gent was very accommodating - he went and got a Yamaha 125cc iron sleeve as a similar bench mark and weighed the sleeve.

The all up weight was 1.61lbs, not that far off the guesstimate previously offered to me.
Maybe before they bore it, port it and do the cut outs. If a finished sleeve is 1.6 lbs that means the rest of the cylinder is only 2 pounds. I'd believe that the raw sleeve is 1.6 lbs, but once it's bored, ported and the cut outs are complete it's far less and closer to the numbers I suggested.

The raw sleeves are also longer than needed so have to be cut/decked.

As I said, I'm not an engineer, but it seems to my feeble mind that it is very unlikely the small thin sleeve represents almost half the total cylinder weight.

Maybe I'm missing the point. Were you looking for the raw sleeve weight or the finished sleeve weight?

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Re: Weight of iron sleeves...

#12 Post by RuZty » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:30 pm

Based on Johns dimensions it would be close to 300 grams (about 0.66 lbs) with out ports or transfer cut outs, so probably closer to half a pound in it's final condition. There might be a fair bit of material left in for finishing but a whole pound seems excessive and a 125 sleeve should be pretty close. Are you thinking of using aluminum sleeves and plating the bore?

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Re: Weight of iron sleeves...

#13 Post by RC45 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 2:07 am

RuZty wrote:Based on Johns dimensions it would be close to 300 grams (about 0.66 lbs) with out ports or transfer cut outs, so probably closer to half a pound in it's final condition. There might be a fair bit of material left in for finishing but a whole pound seems excessive and a 125 sleeve should be pretty close. Are you thinking of using aluminum sleeves and plating the bore?
Yes sir.

Seeing as how great looking these CNC'd works Yamaha forks are (and light) and how far I have gone with all the correct bodywork, magnesium wheels, triples, sticking to TZ frame and swing-arm for weight savings, already all Ti fasteners and planning on Ti axles and pivot bolts, if realistically there is another 3 pounds to be saved in the motor, why not :)

And I suppose the theory is that lbs saved are hp gained LOL

1.6lb for the YZ125 sleeve in this state as shipped
Image
CBR1000RR SP2 HRC WSBK
TZ500V/OW53 Track bike
YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
TZ250B 3YL
TZR250 3MA Track Bike
427ci C5 Z07

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phildu31
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Re: Weight of iron sleeves...

#14 Post by phildu31 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:54 am

I didn't measure the weight of the sleeves, but thickness was near 5 mm before boring (-0.4mm).
Here is one pic found on the net.
Image

RuZty
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Re: Weight of iron sleeves...

#15 Post by RuZty » Wed Nov 23, 2016 12:31 pm

Also note that the original sleeves cast into the cylinders are thinner than replacements. The new ones will be oversize on the OD to accommodate a cylinder that has had the original sleeve machined out and also has the additional material of the 'top hat' flange to prevent the non cast-in sleeve from moving, all extra weight added to the extra material left on for finish machining.
I wouldn't think it unreasonable that you could expect to save about 1kg going to aluminum sleeves, that's pretty low return for the cost and effort involved, but I respect your desire to do it.

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