Won't turn off

General forum on troubleshooting electrical problems and modifications to electrical systems

Moderator: rztom

Message
Author
Hampo
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Newcastle upon tyne UK

Won't turn off

#1 Post by Hampo » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:42 am

Hi again all, following the theft and recovery of my RZV this summer I had a problem when the engine suddenly cut out and wouldn't re-start, I carried out all the checks and asked on the forum and the CDI was the prime suspect. After some delay I've obtained a digital after market replacement from Electrex World here in the UK, the maker is I believe somewhere in Holland. Fitted this and an immediate start followed and the engine is now running really sweet :grin: .
The dancing outside the garage ended abruptly when I turned the key to Off and the engine continued running :sad: . The kill switch had no effect either. This is baffling me-all the connections are good, the ignition switch is earthing out at 'Off' and the rest of the electrical system shuts down, the red Power In to the CDI earths when the ignition switch is off or the kill switch operated yet the engine runs. Pulling the red wire stops it of course. None of the wiring has changed from before. Since power continues to the unit when the red is earthed it must be receiving power from elsewhere – one of the other wires eg the Brown or Green from the AC mag? I'm suspecting an error with the new CDI but before I potentially make a t*t out of myself (again), has anyone experienced anything similar?

User avatar
Ronnie
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:40 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England

#2 Post by Ronnie » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:14 pm

I've never heard that one before :smt017

Was the ignition damaged when it was stolen?

User avatar
Ronnie
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:40 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England

#3 Post by Ronnie » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:19 pm

I've just noticed your location :shock:

Whereabouts are you?

Hampo
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Newcastle upon tyne UK

#4 Post by Hampo » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:23 pm

Hi Ronnie, thanks for the reply. After the theft it came back with the wires from the ignition switch cut and twisted together but it started and ran like that. I re-soldered the wires into the original ignition and all was ok both with the mulitimeter (all conections as they should be in all key positions) and when fitted to the bike. I took it to Armstrong Eng for the MoT, ran ok there and back. I parked it up in my mate's garage and a week later I started it up and after a minute or so of running it cut out. This is all in the thread here

http://www.rzrd500.com/500phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=11034

All the wiring was ok before I replaced the CDI, I thought I may have left something disconnected after all the investigative work but can't find anything like that, and if I had left a wire off its more likely to cause no start? As I've said, all earths as it should so :shock:

Electrex told me that the manufacturer has recently stopped doing analogue CDIs and started digitals, I wondered if there could be an error in the build/internal wiring?

Hampo
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Newcastle upon tyne UK

#5 Post by Hampo » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:25 pm

Ronnie wrote:I've just noticed your location :shock:

Whereabouts are you?
I'm on the quayside, bike in South Gosforth as I have no garage!

User avatar
Ronnie
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:40 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England

#6 Post by Ronnie » Mon Nov 05, 2012 12:49 pm

It does sound like it's an earthing out problem but I'm no electrics expert. However, these bikes aren't exactly rocket science technology so I can't see it being too difficult to solve.

You might be better off getting hold of an original CDI to try. Why did you choose the one you went for?

I'm in wallsend. It's good to know someone else in the area has one of these bikes. I only know of one other!

Hampo
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Newcastle upon tyne UK

#7 Post by Hampo » Mon Nov 05, 2012 1:52 pm

I'm far from an expert but I'm learning to be handy with a wiring diagram and multimeter set to Ohms! If the fault is in the wiring I'll probably find it eventually. You're right they're not nuclear physics but theres a lot of fiddly cable under that tank! A mate of mine in Peterlee was doing someone's 500 a few weeks ago & may be able to lend me the unit for a day to run a comparison.
CDI's for these bikes aren't easy to find. I went for the Electrex because it was the only one I could find that was a straightforward replacement-I don't have the ability to programme bespoke ignition curves, I contacted a manufacturer in Czech republic I've seen recommended in this forum but he told me in his email reply that he'd never heard of the RD500 :-?
You're just up the road from me! You're unlikely to have seen mine around yet, I've had it since April 2011 but for various reasons I've only done about 250 miles on it - very disappointing. Are you in the NERDOC? PM me if you ever fancy a bike related meet up 8-)

User avatar
Ronnie
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:40 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England

#8 Post by Ronnie » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:04 pm

The make you went for is one I don't recognise, but then again It's not something I've ever had the need to look into, however I may be going down the Zeeltronic route in the future.

I'm not in NERDOC. Thought about it a few times but just never got round to it! Think the trip to Durham for the meets puts me off. :grin:

When you said the Quayside did you mean Newcastle Quayside?
Last edited by Ronnie on Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hampo
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Newcastle upon tyne UK

#9 Post by Hampo » Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:10 pm

Yep, Newcastle quayside, not far from the Bridge.
The Zeeltronic seems to have a really good rep amongst the guys in the know. I find the performance of the standard bike scarily adequate after the British stuff I've been used to and my 350 YPVS :shock:

User avatar
Ronnie
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:40 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England

#10 Post by Ronnie » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:44 am

How did you get on? Did you fix the problem?

Hampo
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Newcastle upon tyne UK

#11 Post by Hampo » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:52 am

Hi Ronnie, I had a ride down to Malton in N Yorks last Saturday where a mate has got a Marlboro RD500 in his garage that he's doing up for someone, and tried the new CDI on the known good bike. The same problem repeated itself on that one so I know the fault is in the CDI and my wiring work is vindicated :-)
Electrex World immediately agreed to replace it, as they jolly well should, and tell me they've sold another three units like mine with no complaints (yet) so it may be that mine was a rogue rather than a defective design. We'll see!

User avatar
Ronnie
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1574
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:40 pm
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne, England

#12 Post by Ronnie » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:04 am

Great. At least you know what the problem is and can be sorted. Hopefully!

User avatar
hybrid
Site Admin
Posts: 1203
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:33 am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

#13 Post by hybrid » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:59 pm

Zeeltronic doesn't have to make your bike go faster if you don't want it to.
You can just use the standard map. He definitely knows what an RD/RZ500 is.

Hampo
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Newcastle upon tyne UK

#14 Post by Hampo » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:25 am

hybrid wrote:Zeeltronic doesn't have to make your bike go faster if you don't want it to.
You can just use the standard map. He definitely knows what an RD/RZ500 is.
It looked like the Zeel was going to require more electrical nous than I possess, I'd got the impression that it was v much a performance upgrade, I didn't know there were any curves supplied as standard for either the ignition or the valves and I'd read one or two posts about the tach not working. The Electrex looked like a straight plug 'n play which was what I wanted back in August, with the delay and all the fannying about thats been involved I could have learnt the art of Zeel programming several times over.

It was another mfr who was baffled by the RD500!

HWY9CA
Posts: 169
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:24 am
Location: Texas
Contact:

#15 Post by HWY9CA » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:39 pm

I have a procedure written for the zeel if you would like to review it, email me.
jtippin2001@yahoo.com

Will send you the write up -pretty easy to do step by step with pictures.

JT
http://www.rdsonly.com/
JT
1975 RD350B
1975 RD250B -rough
1979 RD400 Race bike- in process
1985 RZ500 - flame bike
1993 TZ250 4DP2- to be restored

Post Reply