500 Two-Stroke Tech

500cc GP-Replica Tech Forums

Search  FAQ  Register Login
It is currently Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:00 am

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:37 pm 
Offline
- - - - -
- - - - -
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:36 am
Posts: 2100
Location: Eastern Ontario Canada
I had this information on file, but it seems I've lost it. Can someone please tell me how to differentiate between the 2 different stators and flywheels. I have some of each here and want to get them properly labeled.


John


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:29 am 
Offline
*****
*****
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:01 pm
Posts: 2126
Location: CAMBRIDGE,UK
Hi John,

47X8145050 ROTOR ASSY MARKED 47X-50 FITTED TO 47X TYPE BIKES
47X8145051 ROTOR ASSY MARKED 47X-51 FITTED TO 1GE TYPE BIKES

Not sure about the stator but maybe marked the same way?

Steve


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:38 pm 
Offline
- - - - -
- - - - -
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:36 am
Posts: 2100
Location: Eastern Ontario Canada
Thank you Steve. So the flywheels are easy enough to sort out, but the stators are still a mystery.

I have a few stators stamped DZ, that is 4DZ, 10DZ, etc.

I have an RZV stator and it is stamped 2LY. That stator is a lighter colour than the others.

The stator on the bike I'm riding now is 1DX and it's mated to a -51 stator.

I just need to figure out if the DZ stators are 1GE, and the match for the -51 flywheels.


RZV Stator

Image

4DZ Stator

Image

10DZ Stator

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:18 am
Posts: 614
Location: Niagara, Ontario,Canada
If it helps, I believe the Canadian 1GE models have an extra wire on the stator harness for the sidestand kill switch.
I could research the color if you want.

_________________
Colin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:39 pm 
Offline
- - - - -
- - - - -
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:36 am
Posts: 2100
Location: Eastern Ontario Canada
Thanks Colin. The extra wire would apply to both the 47X and 1GE stator here, so I still wouldn't know how to tell which stator is 47X-81410-50 (47X Spec) and which is 47X-81410-51 (1GE Spec).

My other 500 is an early serial # (52X000359) 47X spec and also has the side stand switch.

When searching for an answer I have discovered that the 47X-81410-50 supersedes to 47X-81410-51. Maybe there is no difference? Hell, I don't know. I'm assuming there is due to the different part numbers and the different ignition curves. Hence, the reason for different flywheels.

I'm used to the RZ350 which has 3 different stators, but identifying them is easy as each has different charging coils. This 500 stuff is a bit frustrating :smt011

Someone knows. We just need that someone to pop in and enlighten me.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:31 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:14 pm
Posts: 222
Location: France - Nantes
It might confuse à little bit more rather than help... :cool:

On my 47X, the stator is marked 5DX.

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 8:33 am 
Offline
*****
*****
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:01 pm
Posts: 2126
Location: CAMBRIDGE,UK
Just checked what i have,

47X bike stator 3DY
47X bike stator 3DZ

Steve


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:56 pm 
Offline
- - - - -
- - - - -
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:36 am
Posts: 2100
Location: Eastern Ontario Canada
Thanks guys.

Now I just need to know what's in the 1GE spec bikes.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 5:51 am 
Offline
- - - - -
- - - - -

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:12 am
Posts: 1313
Location: Leicestershire, UK
Hi,

I'm just re-building a 1GE engine at the moment - is there any problem mixing the stator and flywheel components ? - feeling slightly nervous about this since I didn't know there were differences.

Thanks.

Cheers
Paul


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:54 pm
Posts: 173
Location: Germany
Folks, how about just checking electric compatibility?
Up to my knowledge the stators can be exchanged, one guy from the German RD Forum even used a FZR stator with good success.

What you need to check is the following:
- White/Red and White/Green (pick up)
- Red, Green, Brown (source coils)
- 3 white cables (12V windings)
- black (ground)

The colours must exist and match up on the plug between stator and bike harness.

BTW: if you ever stumbled about a rotor/stator/CDI combo comparison for the RZ 350: That's me, who tested & published it.
Unfortunately I don't have that much experience with the 500, but it's still above average ;-)

_________________
Bye
Martin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:09 pm 
Offline
- - - - -
- - - - -
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:36 am
Posts: 2100
Location: Eastern Ontario Canada
If it's like the RZ350 the stators, CDIs and flywheels need to match your specific application. Having said that I can't find any information concerning the differences in RZ500 stators, so at this point I'm assuming the stators are the same. The RZ500 manual only gives one set of numbers for testing stators.

The flywheels are clearly marked -50 for 47X spec bikes and -51 for 1GE spec bikes. That would be due to the different ignition curves. At this point in time I'd say you can use either stator, but you do need the correct flywheel for your specific model bike, 47X or 1GE, that matches the correct 47X or 1GE CDI for your bike. That is to say, if you have a 47X spec bike you need the -50 flywheel, 47X CDI and either stator. For a 1GE spec bike you need a -51 Flywheel, 1GE CDI and either stator. Mismatching may work, but your ignition curve will be off due to the differences between the flywheels and CDIs. Keep it matched for the best results.

The RZ500 is easy to work with compared to the RZ350. The RZ350 has different test numbers for each of the 3 applications as there are 3 different stators, 3 different flywheels and 3 different CDIs. So 9 different components to work with. 1984, 1985, and 1986 each use different parts and have different ignition curves. While you have 9 different parts to choose from, only very specific combinations work, and most require some modification if you mix and match between models. It does get complicated very quickly. Martin's RZ350 chart helps make sense of it all and I've been using it for years. Without that chart it would be very difficult to make sense of it. Thanks Martin!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:49 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:54 pm
Posts: 173
Location: Germany
Keep in mind that the ignition curve is pretty solely determined by the used CDI (later 1GE has a bit more advance in upper range).

Source coils and CDI combine to an electrical system.
As the coil resistance stayed the same between 1GE and 47X and exchanging RZ500 CDI's between the models works flawlessly, the conclusion is that you do not have the RZ350 exchange issues.


I'd also add that my 350 combo charty may need some rework as I only mounted the hardware and checked if bike would start. Meanwhile there have been reports about bikes that would start, but not run properly over the whole rpm range. So best way to handle this is either stay with what belongs together or change to a programmable DC CDI (which eliminates ALL above issues = any combo of rotor/stator will work)

_________________
Bye
Martin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 6:55 am 
Offline
- - - - -
- - - - -

Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:12 am
Posts: 1313
Location: Leicestershire, UK
Many thanks Martin and Silverstrom.

Cheers
Paul


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:09 am 
Offline
*****
*****
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:01 pm
Posts: 2126
Location: CAMBRIDGE,UK
Hi Martin

I have allways wondered about people who swap the 47x cdi for a 1ge cdi but keep the 47x flywheel.When i looked at a 1ge and a 47x flywheel the pick up seemed to be in a different postion but i maybe wrong about this.Are you saying that you just need to change the 47x cdi with a 1ge cdi and no change to the flywheel?

I have your books which are first class :cool:

Steve


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Stator and Flywheel Identification
PostPosted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:54 pm
Posts: 173
Location: Germany
At this point I cannot tell from own explicit measurement, but I can combine 3'rd party information I have.

The Ignitech or Zeeltronic both need the angle where the lobe on the rotor matches the pick-up. All values I stumbled across and all RZ 500 that I installed had similar values.
It's pretty likely that there were 1GE and 47X and also a smaller likelihood that people used mixed parts.
This could only work if 1GE and 47X rotor have the same relative position between the key slot and the lobe. If there were differences, it would be more likely that people stumbled over necessary different settings.

BTW: the "additional' blue cable on the stator is simply the neutral switch (just like the 350)
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12799

_________________
Bye
Martin


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group