RC45's Project-OW48R/53P/TZ500J - 1985 Works Brembos!

Got a customizing or restoration project? Post your progress pictures and updates here

Moderator: rztom

Message
Author
RC45
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1713
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:18 am
Location: Houston, Texas.

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - AirTech 4 the Win!

#436 Post by RC45 » Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:11 pm

OK, so its been a while since I spent time on this bike - sourcing the appropriate TZ500/YZR500 tail piece was the issue, and what ever I tried to cobble together with fibreglass ended up looking clumsy, clunky and home made.

Then I managed to find a TZ500J tail piece.

Build back on track.

Image
Image
Image

And once again, I am having to fix the damn images - imageshack keeps losing the "reduce size" funciotn and then full size images keep showing up :smt013 :smt011
CBR1000RR SP2 HRC WSBK
TZ500V/OW53 Track bike
YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
TZ250B 3YL
TZR250 3MA Track Bike
427ci C5 Z07

RC45
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1713
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:18 am
Location: Houston, Texas.

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - TZ500J Tailpiece found!!

#437 Post by RC45 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:11 pm

Pretty frustrating - bike runs like a champ, starts first kick, idles, PV's cycle - but no tach signal.

Tried various tachs and only intermittent success- the same tach may or may not work. I doubt I have 7 bad tachs in the box :)

Is this a duff signal from the YPVS controller or whom ever supplies the grey wire with the tach signal? Should I just tap a lead off a coil (which lead from the coil, either?) for the signal and bypass the Yamaha box?

Can I drive any tach from a tap off one of the coils?

Oh the effing joys of a bike that's been sitting.
CBR1000RR SP2 HRC WSBK
TZ500V/OW53 Track bike
YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
TZ250B 3YL
TZR250 3MA Track Bike
427ci C5 Z07

silverstrom
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:36 am

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - TZ500J Tailpiece found!!

#438 Post by silverstrom » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:12 pm

It seems extremely unlikely that you have multiple defective tachometers. Tach signal is grey wire from CDI.

It may be your short tach harness. Is it a harness that has worked with a 500 tach previously? I ask because I have tried testing tachs on my 500 using a 350 tach harness and TZR tach harness, both of which look the same as the 500 tach harness, and I could not get any tach to work. The harnesses look identical, put the pin locations in the plugs are different.

FWIW...I have had issues with tachs being sticky/lazy after sitting for a long period. Once they are revved hard a few times they begin to work properly, although it may take a bit of time to return to normal. I have opened many tachs and in my experience true tachometer failures result in a melted PCB.

RC45
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1713
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:18 am
Location: Houston, Texas.

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - TZ500J Tailpiece found!!

#439 Post by RC45 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:42 pm

Yeah, the tach worked previously. I had a FZR1000 (I believe it's a FZR) and the tach read double, so I hooked a pukka 500 tach up and it read correctly.

So I was getting ready to wire in the Baker Electronix signal adjuster and figure I would try the 500 tach 1 more time before I wired the Baker box inline.

And bugger me with a splintered fence post if the 500 tach would not work connected to wires that had worked just 5 minutes previously.

I took the tach to the bench and applied 12v and when I applied a small voltage to the signal terminal the needle swings up - so I believe the tach is good.

The full harness I am using is an OEM NOS harness I trimmed down a number of years ago - removed all the light sub harnesses etc. And this harness saw the bike through a track day without issues.

What should the voltage on Grey wire be for different RPM signals?
CBR1000RR SP2 HRC WSBK
TZ500V/OW53 Track bike
YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
TZ250B 3YL
TZR250 3MA Track Bike
427ci C5 Z07

silverstrom
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 3236
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:36 am

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - TZ500J Tailpiece found!!

#440 Post by silverstrom » Sun Apr 10, 2016 9:37 pm

I have no idea about the grey wire voltage. Shouldn't it be just be reading pulses, so every 2nd stroke the CDI shoots the pulse through the grey wire? The faster the CDI fires the faster the pulses are sent.

Typically the FZR tach should have read half rather than double. As a 4 stroke tach it would only read every fourth stroke where the RZ would read every 2nd stroke.

User avatar
pstamper
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1743
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:56 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - TZ500J Tailpiece found!!

#441 Post by pstamper » Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:34 pm

I just spliced into one of the orange wires going to coils for the Zeeltronic

RC45
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1713
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:18 am
Location: Houston, Texas.

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - TZ500J Tailpiece found!!

#442 Post by RC45 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:51 pm

pstamper wrote:I just spliced into one of the orange wires going to coils for the Zeeltronic
For tach feed or does the Zeeltronic replace the Yamaha CDI or YVPS?
CBR1000RR SP2 HRC WSBK
TZ500V/OW53 Track bike
YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
TZ250B 3YL
TZR250 3MA Track Bike
427ci C5 Z07

User avatar
pstamper
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1743
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:56 pm
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - TZ500J Tailpiece found!!

#443 Post by pstamper » Sun Apr 10, 2016 10:55 pm

Yes it replaced it. Could not get a tach signal so took a good pick and connected a wire from it to tach and started probing wire till tach worked. Was one of the coil feeds that worked.

RC45
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1713
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:18 am
Location: Houston, Texas.

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - TZ500J Tailpiece found!!

#444 Post by RC45 » Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:16 pm

OK, so I should run the grey input on the tach from one of the orange coil wires instead?

That sounds very doable.

Now that I got the bike looking exactly the way I want it of course it up and gets an electronic gremlin LOL

Image
Image
Image
Image
CBR1000RR SP2 HRC WSBK
TZ500V/OW53 Track bike
YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
TZ250B 3YL
TZR250 3MA Track Bike
427ci C5 Z07

RC45
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1713
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:18 am
Location: Houston, Texas.

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - TZ500J Tailpiece found!!

#445 Post by RC45 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:52 pm

I am getting no joy with a using the orange coil wire to drive a tach, I will try the black wire today.
CBR1000RR SP2 HRC WSBK
TZ500V/OW53 Track bike
YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
TZ250B 3YL
TZR250 3MA Track Bike
427ci C5 Z07

User avatar
phildu31
Posts: 430
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:49 pm
Location: Toulouse France

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - TZ500J Tailpiece found!!

#446 Post by phildu31 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 4:35 pm

Black wire is electrical ground. You'll have no signal here. If you must use coil wire, it's only the orange one, but don't know if this works.
If you still use original CDI, tach signal is black/white that also goes to YPVS bloc.

RC45
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1713
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:18 am
Location: Houston, Texas.

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - TZ500J Tailpiece found!!

#447 Post by RC45 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:50 pm

Yeah - issue was the Baker Electronix signal changer unit. Tapped the orange and good 12v feed, TZ250 3YL tach works great, but reads double.

So I now need a way to half the signal.
CBR1000RR SP2 HRC WSBK
TZ500V/OW53 Track bike
YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
TZ250B 3YL
TZR250 3MA Track Bike
427ci C5 Z07

User avatar
phildu31
Posts: 430
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:49 pm
Location: Toulouse France

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - TZ500J Tailpiece found!!

#448 Post by phildu31 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 9:16 pm

Normally there is one coil for each cylinder and one spark at each rev on a 2stroke as in the TZ250.
But on RZ/RD500 you have only one coil for each cylinder bank.
Hence 2 sensors in the same circuit of the alternator which generate 2 sparks at each rev on all cylinders.
That's what we call "lost spark" in french.
So the ignition signal frequency is twice as expected by the tach you want to use.
Would be easier to use the RZ/RD tach.
Phil

RC45
- - - - -
- - - - -
Posts: 1713
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:18 am
Location: Houston, Texas.

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - TZ500J Tailpiece found!!

#449 Post by RC45 » Sat Apr 16, 2016 10:55 pm

phildu31 wrote:Normally there is one coil for each cylinder and one spark at each rev on a 2stroke as in the TZ250.
But on RZ/RD500 you have only one coil for each cylinder bank.
Hence 2 sensors in the same circuit of the alternator which generate 2 sparks at each rev on all cylinders.
That's what we call "lost spark" in french.
So the ignition signal frequency is twice as expected by the tach you want to use.
Would be easier to use the RZ/RD tach.
Phil
I previously had an RZ500 tach, but don't want a street bike tach. I just think this build is better suited to the look of the TZ family of tachs.
O
I know the signal needs to be altered, that's why I have tried a Zeel signal box and this Baker box - neither seem to work as advertised though.

Also, doesn't the RZ500 throw 4 pulses out per rev rather than 2? The TZ250 tach shows 4000rpn at idle, I am sure I had adjusted the RZ to idle at about 1100 to 1200rpm.

So I need this signal to be divide by 4 rather than just by 2 it seems.
CBR1000RR SP2 HRC WSBK
TZ500V/OW53 Track bike
YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
TZ250B 3YL
TZR250 3MA Track Bike
427ci C5 Z07

User avatar
phildu31
Posts: 430
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:49 pm
Location: Toulouse France

Re: RC45's Project-YZR500/OW54 - TZ500J Tailpiece found!!

#450 Post by phildu31 » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:48 am

Hi. I understand the reason why choosing your tach.
In fact, that's the idea of the bike.
For the pulses per rev, you have 2 not 4. The 2 cylinder banks are synced with always 2 pistons at TDC at the same time and the 2 others at BDC.
The wasted spark occurs when piston is at BDC.
If you use Zeeltronic PCDI24V, you should be able to setup the number of pulses per rev for the tach.
Take a look at paragraph 21 page 10 here :
http://www.zeeltronic.com/manuals/manua ... CI-24V.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Standard setting is 2 for RD/RZ but you should adjust it to 1 with your tach.
But as you say, things don't always work as advertised. :razz:

Post Reply