Florida shooting. Do not kick me to the curb.

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pstamper
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Florida shooting. Do not kick me to the curb.

#1 Post by pstamper » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:01 pm

It is so so sad what occurred yesterday in Florida. My prayers and sympathies go out to the families and friends of the people that lost their lives. We are a small motorcycle community but world wide. This can happen anywhere as it has, but America wake up. I am sorry but my poor high school educated soul hurt today. My blessing go out to everyone because this senseless violence must stop. I am not a gun advocate but who needs an AR 15. You can call it a hate crime or not but I feel so sorry for the families and loved ones that have lost a child or friend for no other reason than they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Just my thought at this time of the evening. Please be easy.

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Re: Florida shooting. Do not kick me to the curb.

#2 Post by BRIAN TURFREY » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:19 am

Totally agree my friend.... so sad that this happened :smt010 life is way to short to be pissed off at .... whatever ?

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#3 Post by Smoker » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:43 am

Very saddend, yet again, for the loss of innocent life.

Also very disappointed in myself for not being able to find an answer to the problem.

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Re: Florida shooting. Do not kick me to the curb.

#4 Post by WVWRZ500N » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:29 pm

pstamper wrote:It is so so sad what occurred yesterday in Florida. My prayers and sympathies go out to the families and friends of the people that lost their lives. We are a small motorcycle community but world wide. This can happen anywhere as it has, but America wake up. I am sorry but my poor high school educated soul hurt today. My blessing go out to everyone because this senseless violence must stop. I am not a gun advocate but who needs an AR 15. You can call it a hate crime or not but I feel so sorry for the families and loved ones that have lost a child or friend for no other reason than they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Just my thought at this time of the evening. Please be easy.
Paul,

I have to say it saddens me every time people loose their lives in senseless violence of any kind.

However, let's be very clear gun ownership is not a need it is a right. A Right afforded us by the founders of the country we reside in. It was the second right established in a line of rights. Now we can all argue about what that all entailed but the fact is all guns are is tools. Some people use tools to help, others to harm. Cain killed Able with a rock, it's a heart problem not a rock (gun) problem. As a law abiding citizen of this country you and I have the right to own guns. And as such we then determine the needs we want them for. I can postulate several future scenarios where I would 'need' an AR, but because I have the right today so I can legally own one. Someday in the near future those in power will make laws to limit or try and remove our rights and then we won't have the ability to purchase or own anymore and that is how tyranny begins in any civilization.
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#5 Post by fozzy17 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:51 pm

from the outside looking in, most think its crazy, something like 90 gun related deaths on the usa every day 25,000 a year, makes you wonder how this guy had was allowed to own a gun, he was being watched and high risk, yet he can still buy a assault rifle..
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Re: Florida shooting. Do not kick me to the curb.

#6 Post by silverstrom » Mon Jun 13, 2016 3:21 pm

Whenever something tragic like this happens people are quick to blame guns and gun laws. If he had used a car to mow people down people wouldn't blame the car or car laws. The world is full of lunatics who kill for ideals attained through radicalism. Blame the individuals responsible, not the weapon of choice.

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#7 Post by podman » Mon Jun 13, 2016 4:21 pm

silverstrom wrote:Whenever something tragic like this happens people are quick to blame guns and gun laws. If he had used a car to mow people down people wouldn't blame the car or car laws. The world is full of lunatics who kill for ideals attained through radicalism. Blame the individuals responsible, not the weapon of choice.
I see your point but you cant hold a siege against the police for hours and kill and main many people in minutes using a car..

Living here in the UK I am am very jealous of many of the opportunities and freedoms the US (appears to me) to offer but the apparent easy availability of guns is one thing im very glad we do not have a choice of.

BTT, it was a terrible thing this man done, my sympathies go out to all those affected by it.

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#8 Post by silverstrom » Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:58 pm

podman wrote:
I see your point but you cant hold a siege against the police for hours and kill and main many people in minutes using a car..
The lunatics use car bombs to kill hundreds daily. Do we blame the cars? Let's deal with the crazy people and not regulate the rest of the world into submission. Don't regulate everyone else because of the actions of a madman. We tried that here and it doesn't work.

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#9 Post by fozzy17 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:21 pm

silverstrom wrote:
podman wrote:
I see your point but you cant hold a siege against the police for hours and kill and main many people in minutes using a car..
The lunatics use car bombs to kill hundreds daily. Do we blame the cars? Let's deal with the crazy people and not regulate the rest of the world into submission. Don't regulate everyone else because of the actions of a madman. We tried that here and it doesn't work.

A crazy person is bad enough, but give a crazy person a gun it's a different thing, if there were no guns allowed 25000 people would be alive in the USA every year, you can't defend that it's madness, I like guns but assault rifles, is nuts
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Re: Florida shooting. Do not kick me to the curb.

#10 Post by podman » Mon Jun 13, 2016 6:36 pm

silverstrom wrote:
podman wrote:
I see your point but you cant hold a siege against the police for hours and kill and main many people in minutes using a car..
The lunatics use car bombs to kill hundreds daily. Do we blame the cars? Let's deal with the crazy people and not regulate the rest of the world into submission. Don't regulate everyone else because of the actions of a madman. We tried that here and it doesn't work.
True but I would counter that by the fact of the matter is guns , appear to the outsider, legal and freely available in the US and explosives not, where explosives are easy to obtain in other countries , they are freely used, which underlines my point.

I really dont know what the solution is tbh but these utter scumbags are not going away.

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#11 Post by WVWRZ500N » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:22 am

fozzy17 wrote:
silverstrom wrote:
podman wrote:
I see your point but you cant hold a siege against the police for hours and kill and main many people in minutes using a car..
The lunatics use car bombs to kill hundreds daily. Do we blame the cars? Let's deal with the crazy people and not regulate the rest of the world into submission. Don't regulate everyone else because of the actions of a madman. We tried that here and it doesn't work.

A crazy person is bad enough, but give a crazy person a gun it's a different thing, if there were no guns allowed 25000 people would be alive in the USA every year, you can't defend that it's madness, I like guns but assault rifles, is nuts
Fozzy,

I'm sorry but you're creating statistics worse than Piers Morgan on CNN. Please do some fact checking http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34996604" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Also, of those statistics being homicides, over 75% of those were perpetrated by convicted felons who illegally obtained a firearm to carryout another crime. Just in the city of Chicago alone over our Memorial Day holiday, two weeks ago, there were 64 shootings with 6 dead in the 3 day weekend. That is in a city where it is illegal to posses a gun.

Like I mentioned before this is a heart problem not a gun problem. Guns like knives and screwdrivers are tools. A tool in the hands of a killer is a deadly weapon period.
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Re: Florida shooting. Do not kick me to the curb.

#12 Post by fozzy17 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:46 am

Also, of those statistics being homicides, over 75% of those were perpetrated by convicted felons who illegally obtained a firearm to carryout another crime. Just in the city of Chicago alone over our Memorial Day holiday, two weeks ago, there were 64 shootings with 6 dead in the 3 day weekend. That is in a city where it is illegal to posses a gun.

Like I mentioned before this is a heart problem not a gun problem. Guns like knives and screwdrivers are tools. A tool in the hands of a killer is a deadly weapon period.[/quote]

even if its half that, or even less , say 10.000 people a year, I am amazed joe blogs can go out and buy a assault rifle, someone could be a normal person, have a bad day and go out and start shooting, I am sorry, you will never change my mind on it, I am not saying they should be banned, but something should be done, it tells you how wrong the laws are in the usa that a guy with suspected terrorist links is allowed to buy a ar assault rifle.
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#13 Post by fozzy17 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 10:47 am

The home front: So many people die annually from gunfire in the US that the death toll between 1968 and 2011 eclipses all wars ever fought by the country. According to research by Politifact, there were about 1.4 million firearm deaths in that period, compared with 1.2 million US deaths in every conflict from the War of Independence to Iraq.
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#14 Post by WVWRZ500N » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:21 am

fozzy17 wrote:The home front: So many people die annually from gunfire in the US that the death toll between 1968 and 2011 eclipses all wars ever fought by the country. According to research by Politifact, there were about 1.4 million firearm deaths in that period, compared with 1.2 million US deaths in every conflict from the War of Independence to Iraq.
I understand your point. However, again fact checking the statistics once again, nearly 2/3 of the total deaths related to guns per year are suicide. http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; This is the site that Politifact uses to obtain their information. Further, handgun homicides make up more than 10 times the related deaths verses long guns of ANY type let alone AR or semiautomatic rifles. That's 5500 deaths with handguns vs. 500 with ALL types of long guns. The fact that a pistol with a 16 round magazine can be concealed and carry out far more lethal damage than a rifle is a fact.

So, we may agree to disagree on whether or not someone should own, or have the ability to obtain these types of firearms or not. But please stop stating statistics that are not factual and are inflammatory at best. The US constitution has afforded it's citizens with the right to own firearms plane and simple. The UK citizens gave up those right long ago. In the worst case scenario our citizens have to defend themselves from a tyrannical style government then we can, that is one very well understood fact about why we have the right to bear arms.
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#15 Post by HWY9CA » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:28 pm

I feel as Paul S does just sad this sort of thing can happen in the US- or any where.
Thought and prayers go out the people that have to go through this sort of thing.
The people of the US are a violent group- look at history. Before us the UK was at the top.
If we look back in history we see a trend of violence when we are at war, economy is bad, political unrest...
but the trend is going down But there are more people now...
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873729.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So many issues this incident brings up.. Radical RELIGIONS, Homophobia, Guns, amount of amo in gun, How did they get the gun,Immigration, borders etc....
My view is if one GOOD person in that crowd had a gun and fired back things would have been different. This is a gun free zone [a bar] so it is a soft target.
A explosive device would have done more damage- vs a fire arm. That is the scary part.
Sick crazy people do these sort of things, how do we rout them out? Friends, family... I am sure the people that knew this whack job are sorry they did nothing. Or the law enforcement people that were aware of this nut case.
I do not want to see MY rights/ liberties infringed on due to a Nut job's actions. In the US we are the last bastion of Peoples rights, they are being eroded every year. Cell phone tracking, email hacking, surveillance. And has any of these rights we have handed over stopped these sort of things?
Benjamin Franklin once said: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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