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 Post subject: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:02 pm 
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Am I so far out of touch with current values that a fiberglass faired not stock NS400 is worth an easy 10 grand on the open market?

http://raresportbikesforsale.com/1987-h ... /#comments

I know not everyone is a collector, but I thought that price would at least command stock glossy factory paint fairings and mirrors...

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 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:50 pm 
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You read my comments there. Apparently I upset EZ by being honest. The seller seems to understand the reality. He removed the reserve and lowered the opening bid price and removed the $12,949 US buy-it-now.

Finding a nice clean and unmolested NS400R is becoming difficult. The bikes are just now starting to command higher prices. Given the rarity compared to the RZ500 that is understandable. There were only 300 or so brought to Canada in 1986. Many were crashed, raced, or just beat to death. You don't see many Canadian spec bikes these days. Much of what is for sale online is from overseas and in less than ideal condition. Would I pay $9449 US for that bike at RSBFS? No, but if some wants one bad enough they will. Perhaps the seller will lower the price again as the auction nears the end. There is little interest so far.

When I was commenting at RSBFS I was using this as my example. It would take quite an offer to pry it out of my collection.

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 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:59 pm 
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It's laughable that I can sell a average condition RZ350 all day long for 7k and nice ones for even more.
I can buy any 4k Harley sportster add a hard tail/bobber conversion sell it for 10k....it's all about public perception.
The Honda was a very well built machine, and I only see a few a year at 2 stroke shows.
Back in the day ,saw a few of these enter many races , but they were no match for the RZ350 racebikes, never viewed one even on a podium. But I've rode a friend's, it's was a very nice bike, not exactly fast..but did everything quite well.
Is the bike worth it ? I would like to say sure it is, as I would venture to think a clean original bike to be valued at around 10k or more. IMO NS400s should be more, but in reality the bike does not carry the legendary status of a let's say a Gamna, or the RZ500 nor a YPVS 350, that legend perception has a lot to do with perceived market value. If people don't remember them, (for various reasons) they will never want to pay for one.

Damn good bikes though. Just not worth alot, frankly most bikes are not worth too much as an investment. As we all know to restore one cost alot, in most cases over 50% of the value, and with prime 2 stroke bikes (Gammas, MC28s etc..) usually not exceeding 15-20 k. for minters ,It's still best left as a fun hobby or passion. It's partially that reason myself & all my friends like modified bikes, I just don't care for original condition machines, you often pay more.. for less.
Bikes are for fun, 401ks and Investment accounts are long term.
Bikes are best left for here and now gratification...and they deliver like no other in that department!!

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 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:59 pm 
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NS400 not a fast bike? At least faster than the RD350 both in stock condition...
Quality and the suspension/chassis of the 400 is far better than the RD350 but I guess quality = high price.

High price, maybe in the range of the 500`s and it was only a 400 (or better 387) - nothing a young guy wants to buy.
And the 3 coated cylinders probably made tuning more cost intensive than the 2 cylinder with steel liners in the RD350.

I think the 350 was simply the perfect bike for cheap racing but the 400 is for me the better bike.

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 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:22 pm 
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The power from the one I rode definitely was not impressive.


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 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:39 am 
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You have to know how to ride them. The ATAC valves close at 7500 RPM and you need to be above that to really ride the bike well. If you know how to ride the bike you'll find that the power, while nowhere near the RZ500, easily outperforms the RZ350. I've ridden my NS400R, RZ500 and RZ350 back to back to back and can verify the results. The NS400R is a very quick bike if you know how to ride it and understand how ATAC works.

No one is buying an NS400R for its performance numbers. The NS400R is superior in handling and braking to the RZ350 and RZ500. Build quality is much better than Yamaha and the bike simply looks amazing. I find I fit into the NS400R whereas my RZ500 is like riding a missile. For sheer enjoyment of the ride my NS400R wins every time. If I want to scare myself I take out something bigger. That's how it should be, isn't it? If you want more power, buy a bigger bike.

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 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:59 am 
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Comparing to my r1 or cbr1000 the power of all the road legal 2-srokes is not very impressive. :mrgreen:
The 400 behaves more like a real 2-stroke bike, you have to shift a lot to use the +10hp power peak.
The ypvs is the better system as the 350 is more like a 4-stroke in stock condition.

I learned riding on a nsr125 with incredible 27hp, for a short time without exhaust flaps.
It was impossible to ride it below 7k rpm
But it was fun :smt004

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 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:50 am 
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Location: Anderson, Indiana
I frequent RSBFS all the time too so I saw the NS you're talking about. Lively discussion! I don't think it's worth what he's asking either but we'll see how hungry somebody may be to get one. It's so sad these don't get the attention the RG and RZ do. They are great bikes and do have untapped potential. I bought mine from the original owner who got it in the crate in 1986. It was in excellent original condition but I tore it completely down to go through everything and bring it back to showroom condition. I rode it to a recent vintage bike night and the subject of "what's it worth" came up. I said if I ever decided to sell it, I wouldn't take a dime less than $15k. An acquaintance I met there previously spoke right up and said anytime I wanted to sell, he'd give me $15k.

There is untapped potential in these engines. When I first got it, I was very disappointed in the engine performance. Decent power up top but gutless below that. While I had the engine apart, I did a little work on the transfers at the base of the cylinders, opened up the windows in the piston skirts, and custom machined the heads to get the squish at .035". Even with the stock pipes and cans I fabricated, the difference in engine performance is amazing. It's starts pulling from 5k rpm and the top end surge is way stronger. In my opinion, it totally transformed the bike. I'd love to get it on a dyno just to see where it's at now.

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 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 1:08 pm 
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It's all about the Rothman's color scheme for me, it makes it breaks it.
Back in the day, they just couldn't be tuned, at least not to the level of a RZ350. Honda optimistically claimed 70 h.p. which was a "sales" figure, nothing new there, They all do that, remember Suzuki's infamous Gamma 500 debut? Where they claimed 100 h.p and 150 mph..well beyond what s production bike delivered.
All one had to do with a RZ 350 back then was the usual pipes,port n carbs and. You had a bike that was just as fast or significantly faster and in race trim probably a good 20 pounds lighter than the Honda. There is a good reason the RZ350/YPVS is probably the most successful 2-stroke road,/racebike ever built they just made great club race bikes on a low budget.
I think even then, people who bought the NS400 were more Discerning owners, not too willing to take their expensive bike and thrash it on a road race course. The main problem with the Honda for performance was as you know the pipe design and then the level of complexity at the time of the cylinder head that was new territory back then with plating cylinders, then add on the goofy a ATAC system attached to just some cylinders that is a design as goofy as the RZ500 engine design (induction).
Don't get me wrong it is a great bike! and probably the best road going 2- stroke of the era only Honda out did Honda when they brought out the sublime NSR 250s.
I think your figure of 15k is more in line with what they "should " go for no doubt about it, and 10-K for the bike in question I see as totally acceptable, that's stands to bear if owners if collectibles want 15k then it stands to reason a nice non OEM bike could fetch 10k. If a bike is a rusted corroded thrasher that's a different story but one in question represents itself as an enthusiasts bike, in good shape meant to be ridden not just well kept, I like that! But I am also of the type who prefers buying a ex race bike over a Original condition stock bike, just my preference.

I certainly would not mind one of those toys first order of business would be a set of exhaust pipes no doubt that free up so much power then with a couple UK companies offering their modern big bores you've got yourself one hell of a fun machine.
As far as Speed and Performance vs bigger bikes etc..that's kind of not even worth debating as (excluding collectors) we all know we all take a 50cc 250cc or 500cc to liter + machines and modify them to no end...lol

I hope he sells it for close to his asking price as I feel he's doing himself a disservice it would cost more to rebuild that and restore.... way more.

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Banshee (Baja) race bike, Lonestar A-Arms, dual 9" L.E.Ds, FMF, Toomey,19cc domes, IMS tank, run flats.
96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura Lucky Strike rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ/YZR track bike(project)
86 VFR750 RC24 Merkel replica (project)


Last edited by Questo vecchio rz on Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:47 pm 
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10, 12 or 15K for an NS (IMHO) should be the asking price of all stock bikes in fair, good or excellent presented condition.

I bought all my spare NS400 goodies starting about 7 years years ago when $500 was the goign rate for a complete set of excellent stock body work with tank delivered to my door from Miyabi/Spongebob or some other Japanese breaker.

Now, you pay through your nose for every single piece - not to mention spare cylinders or even a spare engine or 2.

I have enough spares on hand to restore an NS400 but why pay $10K entry fee for a bike that will need $5000 in spares to almost be as good as an already excellent condition bike?

Try buy original mirrors, or the kick stand fairing piece or stock body work and fasteners and single seat cowl etc. without spending a fortune - it is not so easily done.

That was the point of my rebuttal.

Perhaps I need to cash in on the 400 market high to help finance the rest of my YZR build LOL

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 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:58 pm 
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RC45 wrote:
You pay through your nose for every single piece - not to mention spare cylinders or even a spare engine

Try buy original mirrors, or the kick stand fairing piece or stock body work and fasteners and single seat cowl etc. without spending a fortune - it is not so easily done.

That was the point of my rebuttal.


Your so correct, sourcing OEM parts for a collector/Garage queen bike is prohibitive, and in the case of bikes it's hard to recoup your costs, even if one claims to save $ by doing labor themselves.... "time is money" plain n simple.

RC45 wrote:
Perhaps I need to cash in on the 400 market high to help finance the rest of my YZR build LOL

The urge to sacrifice..is always there..right..lol
You have alot of (enthusiastic passion) for your RZ/YZR replicas, it's definitely part of who you are., If you didn't have your bikes you'd be a lost soul...lol

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96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura Lucky Strike rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ/YZR track bike(project)
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 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:41 am 
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Of all of the bikes I have owned and have restored, finding NS400R parts has been the most difficult, and sometimes impossible. The only bike parts I have never been able to find are NS400R parts. OEM mirrors do not exist (same as RC30 but different colour). Upper fairings in useable or even repairable condition are like unicorn poo. Clean exhaust silencers the same. It isn't a matter of them being expensive, it's a matter of them simply not being available. Restoring an NS400R is not an easy task and certainly not a cheap one. That fact alone will help to drive prices up going forward.

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1985 RZ500 1GE Spec
1985 RZ500 47X Spec Project Bike
1986 RG500 ATR
1986 NS400R
1987 TZR250
1988 Honda RC31
2007 DL650 VStrom
2014 Triumph Thruxton Modified


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 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 1:45 am 
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silverstrom wrote:
Of all of the bikes I have owned and have restored, finding NS400R parts has been the most difficult, and sometimes impossible. The only bike parts I have never been able to find are NS400R parts. OEM mirrors do not exist (same as RC30 but different colour). Upper fairings in useable or even repairable condition are like unicorn poo. Clean exhaust silencers the same. It isn't a matter of them being expensive, it's a matter of them simply not being available. Restoring an NS400R is not an easy task and certainly not a cheap one. That fact alone will help to drive prices up going forward.


I think the value of fantastic condition stock bikes like your own will rise rapidly. Key being condition.

The scarcity of parts makes a "restorable runner" a poor buy unless very cheap. IMO of course :)

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 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 6:39 am 
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Ditto on everything you guys have said. I pity the person who wants to restore one who doesn't already have the parts stashed. I doubt there's another older street legal two-stroke sportbike that would be more difficult. RZ350's owners have it easy as we can still get pretty much anything they might need. We've seen the recent increases in 500 prices because they come up for sale regularly but the lack of any 400's hitting the blocks here makes it impossible to see if they will follow the trend. I don't see the sportbike bubble bursting anytime soon, as some are suggesting, so I think our collections will be good into the future.

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 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:06 am 
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Zero bids, even after several price reductions. I suppose that answered that question.

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1986 RG500 ATR
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1987 TZR250
1988 Honda RC31
2007 DL650 VStrom
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