500 Two-Stroke Tech

500cc GP-Replica Tech Forums

Search  FAQ  Register Login
It is currently Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:38 pm

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:36 pm
Posts: 174
Im just writing a thought here, no intent on starting any hard feelings. Just my opinion, as you have. Agree to disagree I suppose

I do find it odd, that some of you feel your mint OEM bikes are worth well in excess of 10k to 15k, but..often when a bike (enthusiasts) /(rider) bike asks 30% or so less, many seem to just relish on bashing sellers into oblivion? In many cases, It's not like there representing as something it's not? I do agree every so often there are to some degree misrepresented machines, would I feel the need to call out the seller, likley not..That's between the seller and buyer, I'm not representing the seller, so I feel my unwarranted opinion would be unfair to the seller. The buyer (unrepresented) are generally on their own unless they seek council /advice on purchasing. .
I kinda understand where your coming from to a degree, but I detect what I feel is hubris in nature almost a self percived elitist mentality, which to me just seems detrimental to the community as a whole ? These are bikes, . Bikes...not Pebble Beach. Lol

I think one would be happy to see prices rising on these old, non concours enthusiast bikes, as it raises the value of nice OEM bikes.
I base alot if this on the money I can get for Rd400 and Rz parts and bikes.
I have two rolling chassis of RZ350s that I can sell for $3500.00 any time I want, I can easily sell a clean RZ350 in (fair) condition for over 7k.. I can sell a RZ 500 motor for over 5-7 k and RZ motors for 3-4k...so around 10k for a clean, decent running bike seems pretty fair to me and not out if line...no?

It's 2018 , I'm sitting at a Applebee's on a business trip and my bill will be close to $40.00...just for me and a couple beers??? It costs me $80.00 just to fill my vehicle up..once a week
(Do you perhaps think ,as I do sometimes that we might be caught in the past a little? ) Be honest. That's not a insult.. but reality mist if us are what 48-65 years old now...prices do creep up on all of us... unfortunately...Hell some of us may not even be capable of riding in 10 years...lol

Again.. Please don't take my comments as any sort of personal attack...I'm just trying to understand where some are coming from..as I understand concours vs enthusiast machines..I just dont get the diversity...it comes across like the POC vs a Corvette owners club....lots of raised noses & snobbery...lol say it ain't so Amigos!...lol

_________________
Banshee (Baja) race bike, Lonestar A-Arms, dual 9" L.E.Ds, FMF, Toomey,19cc domes, IMS tank, run flats.
96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura Lucky Strike rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ/YZR track bike(project)
86 VFR750 RC24 Merkel replica (project)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:33 am 
Offline
- - - - -
- - - - -

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:18 am
Posts: 1596
Location: Houston, Texas.
Questo vecchio rz wrote:
Im just writing a thought here, no intent on starting any hard feelings. Just my opinion, as you have. Agree to disagree I suppose

I do find it odd, that some of you feel your mint OEM bikes are worth well in excess of 10k to 15k, but..often when a bike (enthusiasts) /(rider) bike asks 30% or so less, many seem to just relish on bashing sellers into oblivion? In many cases, It's not like there representing as something it's not? I do agree every so often there are to some degree misrepresented machines, would I feel the need to call out the seller, likley not..That's between the seller and buyer, I'm not representing the seller, so I feel my unwarranted opinion would be unfair to the seller. The buyer (unrepresented) are generally on their own unless they seek council /advice on purchasing. .
I kinda understand where your coming from to a degree, but I detect what I feel is hubris in nature almost a self percived elitist mentality, which to me just seems detrimental to the community as a whole ? These are bikes, . Bikes...not Pebble Beach. Lol

I think one would be happy to see prices rising on these old, non concours enthusiast bikes, as it raises the value of nice OEM bikes.
I base alot if this on the money I can get for Rd400 and Rz parts and bikes.
I have two rolling chassis of RZ350s that I can sell for $3500.00 any time I want, I can easily sell a clean RZ350 in (fair) condition for over 7k.. I can sell a RZ 500 motor for over 5-7 k and RZ motors for 3-4k...so around 10k for a clean, decent running bike seems pretty fair to me and not out if line...no?

It's 2018 , I'm sitting at a Applebee's on a business trip and my bill will be close to $40.00...just for me and a couple beers??? It costs me $80.00 just to fill my vehicle up..once a week
(Do you perhaps think ,as I do sometimes that we might be caught in the past a little? ) Be honest. That's not a insult.. but reality mist if us are what 48-65 years old now...prices do creep up on all of us... unfortunately...Hell some of us may not even be capable of riding in 10 years...lol

Again.. Please don't take my comments as any sort of personal attack...I'm just trying to understand where some are coming from..as I understand concours vs enthusiast machines..I just dont get the diversity...it comes across like the POC vs a Corvette owners club....lots of raised noses & snobbery...lol say it ain't so Amigos!...lol


Simple answer really - in the form of a question.

Would you prefer to call a seller out as asking too much for a bike BEFORE they sell it to some poor NS400 newb or AFTER they sell it to said NS400 newb and have to explain to the new member arriving on here excitedly announcing to the world they just dropped $12,000 on a nice restorable NS400 and where looking for the cheap easy to locate parts the seller assured him would allow him to restore the bike before next summer?

I am sorry - but if a person puts a fiberglass non-stock bike up for sale for $10,000 starting price they are probably unscrupulous enough to lie to the buyer about parts availability as part of the their selling strategy. If they where honest, the bike wouldn't sell for the asking price - as the seller is finding out.

Sure, a sucker is born every minute but why not keep that used car seller mentality out of the RZ/RG/NS community?

There is room for restorables, stock runners, non-stock modded AND the Bloomington Gold perfection out there. Shouldn't the asking prices reflect the reality of the condition at the time of sale?

_________________
TZ500V/OW53 Track bike
YZR500 OW81 Clone
OW69 Daytona 200 Replica - 784cc Monster
NS400 Track Bike
RS250R NF5
TZ250T 2KM
TZ250B 3YL
TZR250 3MA Track Bike
427ci C5 Z07


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:51 am
Posts: 71
Location: Near North Ontario, Canada
Not surprised. I was watching this to see if it sold too. Seller simply asking too much $ for a bike needing too much more $ investing to put it right.

They are a fantastic bike, I love mine, and as others have said, parts are now getting hard to find. I was fortunate to get some good advice from Silverstrom 4 years ago to stock up on parts before they all disappear. I did just that and now, as predicted, they are very hard to find. 4 years ago Miyabee/spongebob was breaking an NS400R every week, I don't recall the last time I saw one broken for parts on that site.

The asking price, in my view, was just too high for the quality of bike offered up and the buying public obviously had the same view.

_________________
2014 Honda VFR800
2013 Yam YZ250F
2000 Kawi ZRX1100
1989 Yam RZ350
1989 Yam FZR400
1988 Suzuki RGV250 VJ21
1987 Suzuki RG250
1986 Honda NS400R
1986 VF500f
1985 VF500f Custom Rothmans VF500R
1985 VF1000R (x4)
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Yam RZ500


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:58 pm 
Offline
- - - - -
- - - - -
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:16 am
Posts: 1176
You guys are clearly more knowledgable than the seller.

So, what it's worth?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:10 pm 
Offline
- - - - -
- - - - -
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:36 am
Posts: 2478
Location: Eastern Ontario Canada
How much it's worth depends on how desperate the next buyer is. The facts are these: the owner said he bought it cheap and was flipping it. The owner said he had no idea what it was really worth. The owner, after being called out, did acknowledge that the bike has issues and lowered the price several times. The sellers description is nonsense. There is a reason that bike was never put together properly with OEM parts.

If you are going to sell a rare bike you should at the very least have a vague idea of what that bike is supposed to look like before you put it on eBay with a flowery description that is obviously flawed. Never underestimate your potential buyer.

At half of the asking price it would have sold. Then someone could put another $10K into restoring it. Starting with the engine, which is an entire project on its own. Cranks don't exist, nor pistons. To rebuild the crank you need bearings and rods...good luck with that. The entire bike is like that. Every piece you need will end with a headache. Why bother with years of headaches when you can wait and buy a nice complete and correct bike? It will cost you, but at least you'll get to ride it.

_________________
1985 RZ500 1GE Spec
1985 RZ500 47X Spec Project Bike
1986 RG500 ATR
1986 NS400R
1987 TZR250
1988 Honda RC31
2007 DL650 VStrom
2014 Triumph Thruxton Modified


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:56 am 
Offline
- - - - -
- - - - -
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:16 am
Posts: 1176
I meant - If you think the price is too high, what would you guys pay for it?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:51 am
Posts: 71
Location: Near North Ontario, Canada
Id say $5000-6000 CAD would be the right range on that bike. Purely knowing what it would cost to "put it right" and the max you'd get out of it after all that investment. That assumes that the engine and tranny are ok.

That's just IMHO and based on my philosophy on how I buy a bike that needs a restoration. I have to factor in what can I get for it if I decide to sell it 1) immediately after I buy it 2) immediately after I restore it. Either way my hobby has to be somewhat self sustaining and im not in it to lose money. Im ok with not making $ on it, its not why I am into the old bikes, but I cant lose money either.

_________________
2014 Honda VFR800
2013 Yam YZ250F
2000 Kawi ZRX1100
1989 Yam RZ350
1989 Yam FZR400
1988 Suzuki RGV250 VJ21
1987 Suzuki RG250
1986 Honda NS400R
1986 VF500f
1985 VF500f Custom Rothmans VF500R
1985 VF1000R (x4)
1986 Honda TLR200 Reflex
1985 Yam RZ500


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:36 pm
Posts: 174
Okay...perplexing still that current owners think this bike should sell for between 4-5 k US dollars.
That's crazy, RZ350s were selling for that over a decade ago. Yes the NS400 is NO RZ350 as far as legend or value, but I've had RZs and know that the NS is a better bike..but better, doesn't equate to value... apparantly. I feel a NS400 should be worth more..but obviouslly it's not.
If I recall a 10 concours RZ350 on Hagerty is valued at 12+k in 2018

For the NS400 a US price of less than $5k ...frankly is out of the question, the bikes worth more than that. So maybe he shoots for around the $7500.00 range?
He should easily be able to sell it around there, I'd certainly rather have that bike over a restored original, as I enjoy modifying things..and there's infinitely more enthusiasts than collectors.

Maybye I was late to the party I didn't see the seller mistepresentig it, it read exactly as it appeared? What did he change?
I could really care less what people are asking and what they sell & buy for, I just feel it's not my place to interfere with a person's dealings, it's between whomever. I'm all about deals,and I have good luck finding them for myself and friends...but I also enjoy when selling to get as much as possible...or more. That's America...and how this works.

Like the guy in the previous post says, I agree. I prefer not to lose $. As far as investments go bikes generally are very poor investments, but within reason it's like a bank, if you are careful, you'll get out what you put in or close to it, but I wouldn't expect more.

_________________
Banshee (Baja) race bike, Lonestar A-Arms, dual 9" L.E.Ds, FMF, Toomey,19cc domes, IMS tank, run flats.
96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura Lucky Strike rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ/YZR track bike(project)
86 VFR750 RC24 Merkel replica (project)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:23 pm 
Offline
- - - - -
- - - - -
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:36 am
Posts: 2478
Location: Eastern Ontario Canada
Straycat wrote:
Id say $5000-6000 CAD would be the right range on that bike.


Yes, exactly.

Smoker...that is what I said if you do the math. I said it would sell at half of the asking price. The seller last listed it at near $8500 US, which is near $5800 Cdn. Then you get to spend some real money sorting it out.

Old RZ.....if the buyer knows he will need to spend big money restoring the bike he isn't likely to pay what you might think it's worth. Smart buyers know that the all-in end price after restoration needs to be less than the then current market value. Paying $7500 US for the bike and having your total cost end up at $16000 US isn't a smart move if the end value is less than that. That isn't money in the bank, it's buy high, sell low.

There was an NS400R for sale 60 miles from me 2 days ago. $3000 Cdn got you a disassembled bike with lots of parts missing and in need of serious money to finish it. It was for sale because the guy that was trying to build it ran into problems with parts. The problem was there are no parts. The crank was rebuilt by an unnamed individual with TZR rods, bearings from something else. There were parts from other Hondas, more Yamaha parts, etc. The tank was damaged, but partially repaired, there was no bodywork, the motor had no top end, no rear suspension, the wrong brake components, and on and on. All of that because the correct parts can't be found. I knew exactly where it was and wouldn't make the 1 hour trip to buy it. Someone did. Now that someone owns a big mess and hopefully that someone has deep pockets and lots of time. He'll need both to have any hope of building a proper NS400R. When it's done that someone will have spent more than the bike is worth.

Those of us that have been down the NS400R restoration road know the pitfalls of such an endeavour. It should not be taken lightly. It is a challenging project and if you do not have a lot of time and a lot of money you should avoid it.

And for anyone thinking you can buy a bike and modify it to make big power and go racing; well, the short answer is no. A big bore kit will take you from 387cc to 475cc, but the cost for the top end parts is 1850 GBP ($2500 US), then you need pipes, ignition, etc. after you throw a small fortune at it you may get 85 HP. Maybe. Then you can spend a lot more buying a proper suspension and proper sized wheels. There is a reason you don't see a lot of heavily modified NS400Rs. A lot of expense for not so much end result. http://www.classicracereplicas.com/Hond ... -Kit-475cc

$1250 US for a used and rebuilt crank. But..none in stock...they rarely are. http://www.classicracereplicas.com/Hond ... onditioned

Classic Race Replicas is the site for parts and information. Ian Wright is the global NS400R authority. If it can be found and if it can be built, Ian is the guy to see. Visit his site and have a look around http://www.classicracereplicas.com/ While you're there try adding some things to your basket. No stock is the common response for many things....engine parts, bodywork, etc. That is why people give up on restorations. Parts can be impossible to find. Knowing that, why would you overpay for a bike that needs a lot of work?

Pay more to get the best bike you can. If you can't afford to pay more to buy the best bike, don't buy an NS400R, unless you are a sucker for punishment and enjoy spending lots of money.

I think we've said all that can be said. Buy with your head, not your heart.

_________________
1985 RZ500 1GE Spec
1985 RZ500 47X Spec Project Bike
1986 RG500 ATR
1986 NS400R
1987 TZR250
1988 Honda RC31
2007 DL650 VStrom
2014 Triumph Thruxton Modified


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:36 pm
Posts: 174
FYI all, I don't live here , just delays at work, allowing me time to read here and enjoy the forum.

I realize where your coming from.
I think we need to accept that bikes listed such as the one in the ad are not being sold as bikes to be restored they are running capable bikes ready to take home and ride. (Within reason) see*.
Totally understandable that if one's goal is to bring it back to an oem condition that it's not the ideal bike to purchase,..

* I also understand that many of you by trade and conscience prefer to totally disassemble and rebuild a motor chassis Etc but we must also be aware that you are in the minority, the majority I feel buy bikes to ride and then sell within a decade or less hopefully getting what they have into them.

Regarding rebuilds and parts yes not easy and expensive I just dumped $3500 into a "bargain" Stroker 350 motor for my Banshee , this price included new Joe's gear set, super polishing and shift star mod and shift shaft mod which I got a very good deal on a few years ago when stocking up for parts, easily could have spent another $2, 000 and even $4,000 if going with CPI cheetah or Serval cylinders...and billet clutch assemblies... As you all know it gets crazy and attempting something to that level on a Honda NS400 means likely shipping it to the U.K . which totally makes it a hobby, labor of love $$$ .

When it reaches this level of obsession, (like many of our toys) budget nor a return on your investment matters..
Just don't let your significant other see the receipts... lol

Have a great day everyone, Hope to follow you projects

_________________
Banshee (Baja) race bike, Lonestar A-Arms, dual 9" L.E.Ds, FMF, Toomey,19cc domes, IMS tank, run flats.
96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura Lucky Strike rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ/YZR track bike(project)
86 VFR750 RC24 Merkel replica (project)


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: $10,000 going rate for fiberglass NS400??
PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:14 am 
Online

Joined: Thu May 24, 2018 5:22 pm
Posts: 32
I'm as far from an expert on these or their prices as one could get - but reading the thread, it is stated these were being torn down for parts, but now there are so few left .... the most common anything sees a spike once they are gone. and if someone is a honda guy, they really don't care if a yamaha or suzuki is preferable, they want a honda.
likewise if they want something to ride NOW, with US title, they might be willing to pay more than someone somewhere else with a garage full of what was unobtainable here, and ones popping up locally on a regular basis.

seems like big bucks to me, but having just gone through the search and purchase of a Yamaha 500, proximity and useability were big factors for me. and what was useable in provided videos turned into (hopefully just) carb float issues, so although the price came down it might end up not being good for me, and I'm sure it wouldn't have been good for anyone closer who could rush to the kijiji bargains, or come back after the seller sorted it out etc..
I don't know about NS mods, but on the Yam I wasn't looking for an original or restoration, as the plan was to ride over the summer and figure out what mods etc I wanted after actually owning one.
So although it seems over priced to me, maybe it will fetch close to that IF it meets the right persons needs/wants.

I'm sure both apply to me, but a fool and his money are soon parted, and there's no fool like an old fool. but I finally have an RZ500.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 4 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group