WHO WANTS FUEL INJECTION?

[Bill Wilson]

Gmanhevner,<p>This has got to be some of the best discussion material in a while here on the BBS. Finally a topic that hasn't been mulled over a hundred times. Not to say I still don't like seeing new ideas and discussions of old ideas too.<p>Well, my take on the idea of FI is it's good if you want and can get reliability. My experience with FI is only on cars, Ford Mustangs late 80s and early 90s. When we frequented race events and in talking with and reading many of the top racers milestones in performance tuning fuel injection, it was abaondoned unless either a turbo, supercharger, or nitrous/supercharger combo was used. Peak performance was always obtained using carb or carb/nitrous in most cases.<p>I hear what your saying about jetting too, however for the most part even a tuned bike, unless your racing it, changing altitude dramatically or temperature +/- about 30 degrees, the bike can be jetted in once and then riden. My tuned 350 hasn't been re-jetted for two years. I have it safe, not raged edged and it performs great.<p>Cost is another big factor to these ideas, one area you may want to look into as mentioned before is people already doing two-strokes like http://www.trickracing1.com/home.html. These guys are building some really wild stuff and worth a look. If I was to want to FI the 500 this is where I would start as they are dealing with performance porting and FI/Turbo and nitrous combinations.<p>Please keep us posted and let us know what progress you make as well as cost.<p>Regards,<br>Bill Wilson<br>Wilson Performance<br>Lee's Summit, MO<br>Member RZ500 Owners Group #573
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WVWRZ500N@aol.com

[Brian]

Dude, that was like 10 years ago.<p> We are talking the here and now. <p>Not something that came off a ford Tortuos. LOL LOL LOL
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Elvishead666@aol.com

[gmanhevner]

Mr. Wilson, thanks for the support on my idea,we both must have been on the same wave length cause I have their info(trick racing), and have submitted a request to them, however they have not replied back yet,this topic has been brought out to soon for me to give a rapid result, cause I'm out of the country for a while yet, then there is getting the bike to the place that I have chosen,so please everyone be paitent, one thing I was pondering was,If sucessful wouldn't you all agree that this deserves special attention(like a Mag. article), because especially how the EPA which I'm a supporter of,but sometimes do not alwayse agree with at times, is banning 2 strokes in the very near future, I have read some info on how they were considering cleaner 2 strokes, maybe this will help people to push for more R&D on the subject of cleaner and better 2 stroke tech.even still if this is sucessful, I feel will be a unique RZ500...
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g_manhevner@yahoo.com

[Farel]

The best bet then is to order an injection unit from Bombadeer right off of the 2 stroke outboard! This is the only commercialy available injection for a 2 stroke.<p>And what it wrong with 10 year old tech considering the bike is 20 yeasr old!
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farelb@pacbell.net

[Brian]

Not enough variance with outboards of throttle positions. <p>They have like 1-2-3-4, as opposed to 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10. <p>Only about 500% more complexities needed. <p>Research it, you'll find out, it's to simple for on-off throttles. <p>They are more or less, designed for fix positions. <p><br>That was an easy one. NEXT!!! LOL
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Elivishead666@aol.com

[Farel]

Actually you should take a closer look prior to coming up with the BS. The Bombadeer 2 stroke injection system cannot be taken over to a bike as is and neither can any system! It is not true that the position on the new direct inject is set for only a few positions. In fact it is liniar and the technology would fit nice once reprogramed.<p>Now ask me how I know this!
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farelb@pacbell.net

[Brian]

Ohh, OK. I Gues I was drunk. I was thing outboartds. <p>Sorry. <p>Your talking watercrafts. <br>Right.
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E@E.com

[Brian]

Ohhhh,<p> OK. <p>Sorry, me a bad boy. <p>I should not have opened my big keyboard mouth. <p>I now see the light.
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Elvishead666@aol.com

[farel]

Brian,<p>I cheated a little I guess.... A close friend of mine was on the development for the injection system. It is quite a system, Bombadeer has versions that they have successfully tested at over 18,000 firings per second in a 2 stroke. The trick is that it is a direct inject with a direct oil bath for the crank bearings. <p>Too bad that Yamaha has not licensed it! <p>Farel
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farelb@pacbell.net

[Brian]

Hey Farel. <br> <br>I just wanted to apologize for my obtuse statement. I was kind of being a brain F_ck (Stupid drunk). <br> <br>After I posted it, I reread it, and said the doesn't make any sense. <br> <br>What I really wanted to say, and what I put, was two totally different things. <br> <br>I really should have put it in a phrase of a question more pertain to the many variation involved, instead of sounding like I actually know what I'm talking about.<br> <br> I've been in the Motorcycle, Marine, Watercraft and snowmobile part business of and on for 15 years. So I have just enough info to hurt myself. <br> <br> I'm actually not as dumb as I sounded, ofcource that could be up for debate now that I made the Worlds dumbest comment's.<br> <br>Good to be sober today.<br> <br>Again sorry
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Elvishead666@aol.com

[Tracy Hagen]

Hi Jeff,<p>I totally agree that the direct injection systems on snowmobiles and outboard motors work really well. In these cases the engines were designed from the beginning for direct injection. It might be scary trying to figure out how to adapt one of these to the RZ500, but if someone cares to have a go I'll root for him (or her) all the way.<p>The snowmobile systems I referred to earlier were the non-direct injection systems that were similar to car systems.<p>Best regards,<p>Tracy Hagen
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tracy_hagen@hotmail.com

[gmanhevner]

hence my reasoning, i do not wish to,nor do I have the time to take apart an entire 4 carb system on an Rz500, and then for it to be just slightly wrong and back apart again, to be able to meter fuel and maximize fuel delivery by the use of a computer,would serve me better, and yes I have the money so I will use it, for what i wish , but it is very interesting to listen to all of your input, like it was said before this is a good topic, considering the banning of the 2 stroke, I'm not going down that easily, I have found a very reliable person for my project, utilizing snowmobile tech. if done properly this will produce greater(not huge, but noticable) H.P. results than simple carbs,even if it is only a few H.P. or more I'll take it, EFI is the art of taking in all data and formulating the correct conditions of the engines desired fuel needs, for maxim efficency, and power while remaining reliable all the way........
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g_manhevner@yahoo.com

[Ashley in Australia]

I for one am very interested in this (though I couldn't afford an EFI system, one can dream right?) Personally I think carburettors, while a very effective system, are horribly outdated and should have been completely abandoned by both the automobile and motorcycle industries 20 or 30 years ago.<p>I hope you succeed with an EFI system for the RZ, but whatever the outcome I hope you will share with us every step of the project as it unfolds.<p>Cheers,<br>Ash
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tty07@yahoo.com.au

[farel]

Brian,<p>No apology needed... Sorry if I came off hard.. thanks for the concern.<p>Farel
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farelb@pacbell.net