major problems

[Juicebox]

Guys, I am having problems with my bike that i'm trying to solve myself, and it's not going well. I'm on my third engine in the last 150 miles, and the new engine I just put in is having the same problems. This forum has always helped me before, so I hope you can help me figure out what's going on. I don't want to write a whole book detailing my problems at this moment, so I will just start by asking what happens if you run your bike with a dead ballistic battery still hooked up? I know you can run without a battery, as long as you have a battery eliminator...but what happens if you run with a dead battery still hooked up? I will continue to explain whats going on after I get an answer to this question. I should also say that electrical is my weakest system of knowledge...I just dont understand this shit. Thanks.

[T.RexRacing]

As long as there's no dead cell and continuity is maintained you're OK. Still not the greatest idea when a battery for the RZ is cheap.

[Juicebox]

I dont know if a cell is dead. The battery is dead though, and I only ran it for a short time that way. I have a new one now, but I wanted to know what kinda problems would happen if I ran it that way for awhile? My last 2 engines have had the pistons blown to shit. From the intake port down blown off. One engine this happened on the left side, one engine the right side. One engine with about 100 miles, the other with about 50 miles. Now my new engine I just put in is acting the same way as the last two. I will be cruising along, everything seems fine, the bike runs great, and then it just starts bogging down, cutting in and out, going bwah bwah with no power. Someone said it could be electrical, like a coil or something that starts to have problems after the engine starts getting warm. Like the heat makes the problem appear, but when it first starts up....no problems. He said that it sounds like one cylinder is just cutting out. Could electrical issues lead to destroyed pistons?

[Juicebox]

Thanks again to anyone who helps me out. This forum has been great at helping me.

[Disco]

Both my Rz's were run with dead batteries for years (Previous Owners). I had concerns that it would ruin the stator and/or other things. I put new batteries in both and have had zero issues. Both recharge and cycle the powervalves like they should. I wouldn't freak over the dead battery.

[Juicebox]

Ok. I didnt think it was the battery, but I thought i'd ask. What about bad coils or ignition or anything else? It just seems like its just cutting in and out. Sputtering.

[Juicebox]

Here's a picture of the second to last engine I took out. Around 100 miles on it. Could electrical issues cause this? Jetting? Any ideas why this keeps happening?

[Jessy]

Have you checked your oil pump? Doesn't look like it's getting much oil

Jess

[tacky1]

That's an oil problem. Are you using the same oil tank. Does it flow oil. Is the line blocked or the outlet blocked. Let the oil run out of the tank with the cap on and see if it slows down or stops.

[RuZty]

If you have done that to 2 engines in very short miles you need to narrow it down to what is common to the 2 engines for a start. As tacky1 suggested the oil tank would likely be common, did you reuse hoses, side cover/oil pump, carbs etc. Are you even running the oil pump, or premix? What ratio, what carbs etc. Did you change anything from your previous good engine or was it the same setup?

EDIT; I just read some of your other posts and you are all over the place with your questions and results.
One post says you are running Wiseco pistons, what clearance did you install them at?
You had an engine fail for lack of oil to one cylinder, did you find the cause or reuse anything from that engine?
Did you ever test compression with your new head? I have one of Slingers heads and have no problems with loose plugs or studs but am not running any advance and IIRC it's about 135 psi.
You had advanced timing, did you return to stock for the second engine that seized?
etc.

This is an expensive way to troubleshoot and learn, you have to break it down and work methodically. List everything you have done from the beginning of your problems and what the outcome was. Answer every question you are asked and maybe the big answer will be obvious.

[motosapien]

not sure where to start.... there are lot of ways to screw it up. No doubt that you will get tonnes of help from rusty tacky and many other expert tuners. But then as you want to learn and do it yourself, try to find forum members around you who has good understand of RZ, work with them instead of doing it yourself. I am sure that someone here located in your area will be happy to help. You will definitely gain knowledge, save money and get to ride sooner.

Good luck

[whyzee79]

It almost looks as if both pistons were set up with not enough clearance too. Every surface of both pistons is scored. That is some major expensive trouble shooting. Did the same shop do the work that this happened to?

[T.RexRacing]

I'm with jessy and tacky1. There's no oil in the crankcase at all. Yamahas are notorious for holding a lot of oil in the crankcases and have been forever. It's why they smoke so much on cold start up. The crankshaft wheels visible in the photo show no sheen of residual oil. Start with the oil pump,tank, lines and carb fittings.

And rebuild that crankshaft too. I bet it's on it's way out from the lack of oil. Don't do this again diagnose the problem with certainty and repair it. Then ride. Patience will pay off if it proves difficult to diagnose but I'd start with the tank and move down the line until I found it. There's plenty of competent help here for the taking. Use it wisely.

[Juicebox]

Thanks guys for the help...I obviously need it. I guess I'll try to explain everything that happened, but it will belong. I had 2 bikes. Bike A was my favorite bike, and bike B was a full fairing bike that I sold to my brother. When I sold it to him, I took the engine out of bike A, which wasn't the numbers matching engine, and put it in bike B. The engine was running fine, but my brother wanted the oil pump reinstalled. I installed the pump, but told him not to ride it until I did everything to make sure the injection system was running properly. He didn't listen, and rode the bike. One of the oil lines wasn't delivering oil to the carbs, and he destroyed the crank and one cylinder. I took parts that I had and built another engine. We made sure the injection was working properly, and that engine is in his bike now and running fine. I then began building an engine for my bike. I had a brand new crank, and cylinders that were freshly bored, and had brand new pistons. I bought these parts a while ago from someone in Ohio. The boring was already done, so I don't know about clearances or anything else like that. I just assumed they were ready to go. The crank was a Hot Rods crank, and the pistons were Pro-X. I had the numbers matching top case for my bike, so I wanted to build an engine using that, the new parts I had and some other mods that I wanted to put on the engine. These included an O-ringed head from Glyn, port work by Glyn on the cylinders that matched the Pro-X pistons, a stator plate from Wicked that allowed for advanced timing. I also put a dial-a-jet kit on my air filter. I put the engine together with the following jetting-main 420, dynojet needle three clicks down from top and pilot 20 and oil injection. When I started the engine, it sounded great....crisp and strong. I ran through a couple of heat cycles and rechecked head torque. I guess i'm not sure how to do plug chops and baby the engine for the first few tanks, so I didn't do any plug chops or anything to check on jetting. I just rode the bike around trying to be gentle and only putting the spurs to it briefly and infrequently. I took several rides of an hour or longer, but again, was trying not to be hard on it. These rides were fun, and there was no sign of trouble. Several days after such a ride (a ride which didn't raise any alarms) I went to start it up, and it didn't sound right. I put a new set of plugs in it, and it ran fine for a brief time. Shortly into my ride it started acting funny again. It was sputtering, hesitating and just sounded funny with no power. I babied it back home and took the head off. Thats when I noticed that the tops of the brand new pistons looked all beat to shit. I just took that engine out and set it aside. I then began building a completely different engine. I sent the cylinders from my brothers bike that he ruined by not waiting til the oil pump was functioning properly to a machinist who said they only needed a hone. He honed them and told me what sized pistons to get. Just to be clear, this next engine was completely different from the one that failed in my bike. I didn't use any of the same parts except maybe a circlip or fastener or something. I took some of the mods off this engine, because I thought they may be the problem. I put the timing back to stock. Used cylinders with little or no porting. Took the dial-a-jet off and went to premix instead of injection. I went 32/1 ratio. To do this, I just left the oil pump connected but cut the line from the tank to the pump and crimped it. I also put a stock head on with a non-factory head gasket. This gasket leaked, so I put the shaved head back on. I was in a hurry and didn't wanna wait for a factory head gasket. I rode the bike around for about 30-40 miles with no issues that I could tell. It sounded and responded quite well I thought. Then one day I was gonna ride with a friend and it started doing the same thing as before. I towed it home and let the bike sit over the winter. I asked someone who works mostly on Harleys, but who had built and sold an RZ on Ebay, if he would help me. We took the engine out of the bike and pictures of the pistons are below. So the picture in the post above is from the second to last engine, and the pictures below are from the last engine. The crank from this last engine also has no big end bearing on the crank on the left side, which is the side with the more damaged piston. I then ordered a new crank and 4 pistons. I gave him the crank and pistons. He took it to a machinist friend who bored the cylinders out after he had the pistons. We reconnected the oil pump and built the engine using a copper head gasket from wicked, along with all new seals and gaskets. I just rode the bike for the first time, and in less than 15 miles, I am having the bike act and sound the same way as before. At first start up there was no problem, but then as I rode it and the bike got warmer, the issues started appearing. The guy who built the engine said he thinks its some kinda electrical issue, because the bike will cut out and cut back in. So thats where im at. If anyone can even follow what I just wrote, i'll be amazed. I guess I just dont know where to go from here? Do I check pump first? Electrical first? Ask machinist what tolerances he used? Check jetting? If anyone could come up with a list to follow in order to figure this out, I would appreciate it. Im not too bad at doing things if someone tells me what to do, but I am obviously quite bad at diagnosing and figuring out what to do. Thanks again for all the help in the past, as well as any help in the future. I really love this bike, but I feel like maybe I should just treat it like a drug addicted relative...get rid of it no matter how much it hurts. Peace.

[Juicebox]

Thanks for the advice T-Rex. I will check the pump and make sure it is fully functional. But how come I had the problems with my last engine when I was running 32/1 pre-mix? The pistons from that engine are in the post right above this. They look better than the pistons from the second to last engine, but still f'ed up. And the crankshaft was missing the left side big end bearing.