major problems

[T.RexRacing]

So now you've got me confused. The photo in post 7 is the most recent running with pre-mix? or pump?

And man you've got to learn to write in a cohesive fashion. That thing above is unreadable online. I can't read more than a few sentences before I lose my place and give up on trying.

[Juicebox]

Sorry...I am a bad writer. Thats why I didn't even wanna try. Anyway, the picture in post 7 is the second to last engine with oil injection. The other pictures are from the last engine that I just took out with pre-mix.

[waltmil]

You are also bad at diagnostics. If you have a problem, try to find what caused it. Wholesale changes will not help to diagnose the original problem. If you need a starting point, build something that has been proven to work, stock with known carbs and pipes and oil injection would be a good choice.

[Juicebox]

I know i'm bad at diagnostics. I said that at the end of my rambling post. I also did try to go back to an engine without all these mods. It now has a stock head, no timing advance and the cylinders ported by Glyn have been removed. I also put the rebuilt oil pump back on. The way this engine is set up right now, is the same way i've had it in the past with no issues, except for V-Force 4 reeds...including the jetting. I will start by taking things apart and seeing if there is any damage done already.

[JonW]

I dont think its electrics and they look like different failures to me, the first one is a clearance issue, probably caused by lack of oil, which you agreed is the issue i think in what you wrote. The second one could possibly be that youre leaking air on the one side, or just unlucky that a bit fell off the skirt for some bizarre (was it dropped before it got fitted?)... either way did you leak test this 2nd motor?

You will need that crank checked when rebuilding the 2nd motor, the lost chunk of the piston skirt had to go somewhere and the bearing on that side probably needs replacing at the least, and thats assuming its not the bearing that embedded in the top edge of the piston/head in your pics, and its just the bit off the skirt.

Have you looked at any charts like this?

[T.RexRacing]

You have a set of cylinders from Slinger? dood..................

[gpaddict]

Juicebox, do you want to sell the bike, or would you like some help with it?

[Juicebox]

Ok. I took a couple more photos of the cranks, and it looks like they both have oil, so im not sure that no oil was the problem in either case. In my first photos of the engine where the crank is still in the case, it looked like the pistons and crank were dry. But that engine had been sitting for a year before I took the cylinders off and took those pictures. Today I spun the crank around a couple of times, and you can clearly see oil. That engine was using an oil pump that was rebuilt by me, and the photos (after a couple of spins) are below.







These photos are of the other crank that come out of the second engine. The pistons from that engine do look dry, but I think the guy who took the engine apart wiped them off. The crank is covered in a film of oil, and that engine was running premix. This crank is pictured below.



This second crank also had the big end bearing completely destroyed on the left side. It is completely gone with no remnants remaining.



So I have a couple of questions for the guys who know more than me. Do these new pictures eliminate the possibility that oil delivery was responsible for these failures, or could that still be the problem? If oil delivery was a problem, could that lead to the complete destruction of that big end bearing, or would something more violent be needed to cause that....and what kinda violent things might that be? On the one engine, it looks as thought there was improper clearance for the pistons. I know there are forged and cast pistons...could someone explain the difference to me, and why someone would choose one over the other? Thanks again to all for the help.

[pushstartrearset]

I would take your next bore job seriously and find another verified 2 stroke cylinder bore guy (ask the forum...take this seriously!). Find a reputable 2 stroke bore specialist. Sounds like the mechanic's friend might be an automotive type bore guy and things can catch if they don't chamfer the ports like a seasoned 2 stroke bore specialist and the clearances are off. You are in Wisconsin right? Someone on this forum will know of a competent bore guy in your area. I know boretech does excellent work and should be in your general area. Might be a bit of a wait since spring will be starting soon, but you'll be guaranteed a good job. I would next have the heads recut to stock and make sure someone other than you can verify if your timing is also factory. Another good tip as mentioned before? Go back to stock carbs and recommended jetting for your setup. <---I like pipes and the Y-boot, so ask for tips if you go that route. Aftermarket carbs can be a real hassle, especially for the juiceman....keeping as close to OEM as possible, should help reduce your wrench time.

Just to be safe:

Send injection pump to Arrow (member here) for rebuild. Also when this part is removed, you have to follow a "bleed procedure" or you'll have air in the lines that could lead to seizure. Yamaha recommends when reconnecting, the the main FAT feed line to pump be "bled into a container for a couple minutes, to bleed air out of that main line to pump. Next i remove the phillips head bleed screw on pump itself and let the oil dribble out there until the air bubbles are gone. What i do next is use a small plastic lawn mower tank(auxiliary gas tank and you'll need to buy a say 3 feet of fuel line and plastic male connector joints/fittings to connect hoses to each other) and cheap round ON/OFF mower petcock (Lawn mower shop or o-rielly's shoud have that) hangine by a coat hangar on the raised garage door w/ 32:1 premix. I disconnect and remove the gas tank, the injector lines , but leave the plastic injector boots in the carbs and block the boots off w/ vinyl plugs (so the carbs don't suck air there. basically pull the line off at the carb, but not the boot w/it and leave the line expose out in the open. Since the tank is removed, you also need to put a vinyl vacuum plug on the end of the vacuum hose that hooks up to the petcock as that will be exposed once you remove the tank. Now you can start the bike up (turn on aux tank petcock!) and bleed the air out of the oil lines as the pump will slowly push the air out. When you see oil come out both injector line ends to carbs, you are done and the injection system has the air bled out.

when you get your cylinders back from bore guy, (you'll see that the ports have a rounded off taper if the guy did the ports right) do you wash your cylinders in soap in water (seriously) to remove the leftover machinist residue that is always left behind? After that I take a clean dry cloth rag dipped in marvel mystery oil and wipe the cylinders until the rag comes out clean. I'd have a couple spare old t0-shirts cut in sections and wipe and re-wipe (each time w/ a new section of rag) until the rag comes out clean and the cylinders are spotless. Not doing this will have abrasive material scratch the cylinder walls...<--this is a must do!
Af
Another experienced and tip: Head torque. You'll probably have to do this more than just once! Heat cycling. After you torque the head to specification, take for an EASY 15 minute ride to full operating temp. return home, place an INDUSTRIAL fan for an hour or two to completely cool motor (or let sit overnight). Then when completely cooled, retorque the head to spec again. Chances are, you'll find a couple bolts need to be re-tightened. take for another ride, let cool and repeat whole procedure. You'll know you are done torqueing bolts when ALL bolts hold the specified torque and no loose bolts. the torque wrench will "click" on each bolt and you know. <---You need to have a clicker type torque wrench in ft-lbs for the top end and a inch-lb wrench for the bottom end (lesser torque values). I think a lot of people blow heads w/o the proper wrenches and the experienced secret of checking and rechecking torque on heads. One time is not enough. I once had to do it 9X for a head I over used some yamabond on, but the mother didn't leak. Also did this w/ an after market head gasket, but first sprayed in permatex copper head gasket spray...still working an no leaks thanks to "heat cycling" or what's mentioned in this paragraph.

From what I gather, you are a super novice. If the engine blows again, I would highly suggest you do what Ari mentioned in motorcyclist magazine for people just getting into vintage rides. Sell that nightmare and get a reliable FZ07 or similar. Ride, ride, ride and not wrench, wrench, wrench. <that can be major suckage!!! I've put about 111, 000 miles on the Z1000. Sometimes you need a break like kevin cameron mentioned in his excellent article on determined people that get burnout on a stressful project (they all end up moving on to something else...survival instinct is what i think he was getting out or the body's response, saying" this is ENOUGH!!!!. like going all over the country ina van just to race and no time for sleep!!! (10+ cups of coffee and driving while in a transitional REM sleep...dayum!!! dood<--they get burnout and move to something else!!

My girlfriend can't understand why i want to move away from two stroke completely, but when you have *ucked them up as much as i have over so many years, you get the picture.

There is a difference between and owner that has someone else do all the work for them and the guy like me that does most of all the work. The latter is the REAL ownership...you've paid your dues. The former has it easy and all they have to do is ride and someone else fixes it. Not a true vintage bike rider. Wrench for years, f*uck it up and then see how you like it. For me, I have a high tolerance for pain and have stuck w/i, but ride the 4 stroke much more often.

Anyway, my two cents. Hope you enjoyed my pain. Been there, done that many times over two decades...still riding and wrenching on them.

[JonW]

Did you read my post? the 2nd cranks bearing is in your piston crown and probably your pipe, youve just proved that when talking about your crank. And... I ask again, did you pressure / vac test the motor? I reckon you had an airleak.

[RuZty]

First thing you have to do is slow it down and take one thing at a time. You keep saying you are bad at stuff, that is the most important step in changing it. Right now this is like puking in a bucket and asking someone what you had for lunch. After a few questions your response is to puke in the bucket again. It is a lot easier to get help if you present your problem in an orderly manner and address questions directly. I don't proclaim to be an expert but if you have a good approach and communicate effectively you will get there in the end.

-Put the words with the picture they belong to and leave a space to the next point.
-Remember that people only know what you tell them, they are not a party to everything you have done or the thoughts in your head.
-Quote peoples questions and then type your answer to those questions in the same order.
-Each thought or point being made starts a new line, each new topic gets its own paragraph with a space before it.

I have spent well over an hour reading this and making notes trying to connect the dots and summarize, if you do this yourself people who can't be bothered to spend the time to decipher your mess will be more likely to help.

Engine 1
Was running fine on premix, switched back to the oil pump. Did not verify pump operation and engine suffered crank and cylinder damage.

Questions;
How do you know it was an oil delivery problem?
Which cylinder failed?
Was anything from this engine used in any of the following engines?


Engine 2
Built to replace Engine 1, working fine.
Yay, success, be happy!

Questions;
Was the machine work done by a different person from any of the other engines?
What kind of pistons?


Engine 3
New engine built with head and cylinders from Slinger, advanced timing, Dial-a-Jet, ProX pistons. Suffered a bad seize on both cylinders, right piston skirt broke. Crank appears to be well oiled.

Questions;
Did Glyn fit the pistons? If so you can rule out a fit problem.
What do the piston crowns look like?
Was the oil pump rebuilt, or at least checked?
Were any parts reused from previous engines?


Engine 4
New bottom end with honed cylinders from Engine 1. Premix and stock timing. Suffered left side big end bearing failure and appears to have sent bearing parts through the cylinder destroying the piston crown.

Questions;
What kind of pistons?
Where did the crank come from? Was it new or used?


Engine 5
New crank and pistons in Engine 4, now running poorly but no further info.

Questions;
What kind of pistons?


General questions;
I don't think you mention the following on any of the above combinations;
Stock or aftermarket ignition?
What kind of spark plugs?
What you were running for carbs, air filters and pipes?
Any cooling system variations from stock and was everything verified working?

Suggestions;
You have no idea what clearances were used on any of these, you should know that to make sure they are fit properly. Selling an RZ on Ebay does not make someone knowledgeable, more likely the opposite.
You did not pressure test any of these engines for air leaks. This is a good practice to avoid expensive problems and there is plenty of info on here how to go about it.
You did not verify your jetting on any of these engines. Learn how to do so and remember that going from oil pump to premix effectively makes the jetting leaner.

[Hooligan]

PARAGRAPHS are your friend. I'm not even going to attempt to read that wall of text.

[Juicebox]

I get it...my post is long and unreadable. I will figure things out on my own.

[JonW]

I and others tried to help you but i dont think youve read our posts at all. I only asked one question and you never answered it. People will give up on helping you if you cant do simple things like that and instead throw your toys out of your pram.

[tacky1]

I and others tried to help you but i dont think youve read our posts at all. I only asked one question and you never answered it. People will give up on helping you if you cant do simple things like that and instead throw your toys out of your pram.

Exactly what I was thinking!!!!