RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

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ulsterman
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:49 pm

Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#16 Post by ulsterman » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:48 pm

The banshee motors already today at 465cc are upwards on 120hp with the proper set up and proven tec-the etec stuff will just be an add on
And after building alot of RZ racers over the years just a pet project


The Moto 3 is the big change and taking engines in a different direction ---
The devlopemt if you were to pay me today to do this or a R and D company is over 150,000 for the Swingarm/Subframe and Head stock alone
CNC and Design work is not cheap
Just good i can do it myself ---takes longer but i can still find time to get it done

Any questions are welcome and the only dumb one is the one never ask
Open descussion is always good for the breed

GPL Racing
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia Canada

Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#17 Post by GPL Racing » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:11 pm

That's funny Laird totally lost in translation :smt006

"time limited" I was thinking the time your have to fire the injector, sorry if I confused you .......I'm good at that lol. As I'm sure you know the outboard's don't rev to high, and getting direct injection to work and rev it is going to be some task, not many M/S for it all to happen.

Cool project :smt023

Glyn

ulsterman
Posts: 71
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:49 pm

Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#18 Post by ulsterman » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:35 pm

Its All good Glyn

Moto3
If you look at the last picture it is from a PLC ----i can minipulate the injectors as i need down to 8ms
All you do is run an encoder on the ingintion side rotor to give you 360 deg positioning for control
I went with the Allen bradley as it gives me open arcatiture to develope the ECM and then turn it to micro control
The Air and Fuel with remain charged to the injector and then the injector is fired

Moto1
See the RZ and Banshee as you know are the same motor base from 1984 to 2006 so the barrels and cases are well developed in after market
Billet cases ----10mm over crank ----4mm bores -and unreal the HP from the motor ---the Etec on the rotax sleds here are running High rpm
and inject after the transferr to lower emmisions and really the head mod for that one is not so hard the 465/500 will be a good side project
Take the whole management system from the ETEC sled and away you go

GPL Racing
Posts: 127
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Location: Nova Scotia Canada

Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#19 Post by GPL Racing » Fri Mar 08, 2013 5:28 pm

Interesting!!!

I've always wanted to place an injector/injectors to fire directly into the cases, quite what the gains if any would be I have no clue lol.

Nice to see something new and................... out of the box thinking.

Glyn

RuZty
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Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#20 Post by RuZty » Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:54 am

ulsterman wrote: Take the whole management system from the ETEC sled and away you go
This interests me a lot, please keep posting your progress. Do you have any experience with running the injected sled motors in summer? Do the stock sensors/ECU have the range to make it run well when the air is 20-40 degrees C warmer than it's normal operating conditions? I have several coworkers with SDI SkiDoo's but haven't managed to convince them to let me play with one during the summer, maybe it's time to buy a wreck.

ulsterman
Posts: 71
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Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#21 Post by ulsterman » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:32 am

I will keep you updated on that project as it goes as I am trying to get the Moto 3 on the track by May
The Etec 600 sled I don't like the motor just the head design --------the Banshee bottom end and Barrels at way stronger when modified like Mattood cases
Fuel injection are designed with air mass/tps/ox sensor all to self adjust to air conditions
They even drag race them here in the summer ---some are over 190hp from the 600 drag motors--they are 160 stock
You see there using the normal aspiration to get as much air exchange as possible but lean and then injecting more after tranferr to boost the PSI numbers ---------This last piece now can monitor the EGT and stuff and adjust to conditions and very low emissions

GPL Racing
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:48 am
Location: Nova Scotia Canada

Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#22 Post by GPL Racing » Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:43 pm

Hey Laird

Is the Rotax set up a closed loop EGT?

Glyn

ulsterman
Posts: 71
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Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#23 Post by ulsterman » Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:07 pm

Hey Glyn I havnt got into there system and don't really need to -----if I can manipulate it will run the PLC like the Moto 3 bike to fire the injector-------The Etec is done the way it is with the injectors because then you don't need high pressure fuel pumps as the injector coil does it itself -----------------The Bashee Rz motor up to the barrels is proven tec-no question -Fast realiable and tones and tones of spares -----the Etec system running on the BRP sleds is proven and award winning so why not use proven stuff-------Two stroke developed by Barrel induction like the RZ/TZ then Crank case like the RS and the fasted the Aprilla as it became rotary crank induction -----the most amount of air exchange in the space of time given of air flow -----------That's how the ETEC is going faster as it increase the amount being able to be put into the cylinder in a given time -----------------Rz--175cc with 20cc head -----175/20 equals 8.75 * 14 psi or atmosphere gives you 122.5 psi and that what you motor should read with a compression testor--------------RS125 cc-------125/10cc head-12.5 *14psi------175 psi and that's what a well tuned max two stroke will give you -------above this value no matter the motor it will destruct if not maintain to a high level thus changing pistons and stuff on race bikes often -------------This is why people make the Engine size bigger but forget the head cc and the compression levels are goin way above racing capablitilys -----------sorry for my spelling ----------500cc Banshee/2 equals 250cc cylinder------250/20cc head equals 12.5 and there you are at racing and better have crank bearings and stuff to keep up ----------

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L.B
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Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#24 Post by L.B » Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:27 am

Food for the brain...excellent reading by my limited understanding of 2 strokes.
Please,keep us up to date with your work/projects,very cool stuff!

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nokturnal
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Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#25 Post by nokturnal » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:11 am

Image

Image

Image

Image
:smt017

ulsterman
Posts: 71
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Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#26 Post by ulsterman » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:40 am

I would like to think my friend for posting these pictures
They were taken a bit more resent -about 4 to 6 wks ago

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nokturnal
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Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#27 Post by nokturnal » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:47 am

anytime :smt023
:smt017

ulsterman
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Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#28 Post by ulsterman » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:42 pm

Thanks guys for all the questions -hopefully will get some more stuff up on here by the end of the month

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Benno #03
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Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#29 Post by Benno #03 » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:50 am

Wow, Just Wow. Best of Luck with your build. I like your attitude.
76 TZ350(project).
82 RD350LC.
82 SR250.
83 RZ350YPVS.
88 RZ250 YPVS(project).
83 FJ1100.
96 YZF750R(track bike).
99 YZF1000 R1.
00 YZF1000 R1.

72 CB750four.
Lifan 125 Pitbike.

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nokturnal
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Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

#30 Post by nokturnal » Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:13 pm

Image

Image

Image
:smt017

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