RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
Moderator: rztom
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- Posts: 104
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:13 am
- Location: West Aust
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
Ulsterman, don't let them get you down!
Lot's of people admire what you are doing and are very interested.
Good on you mate!
Lot's of people admire what you are doing and are very interested.
Good on you mate!
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
ghezzi, I like your spirit.
Laird, I hope to have the opportunity to make it to the track next summer and see your projects in action. I can tell you are doing this because the journey is as important or more so than the destination. Enjoy it.
Laird, I hope to have the opportunity to make it to the track next summer and see your projects in action. I can tell you are doing this because the journey is as important or more so than the destination. Enjoy it.
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
I have absolutely no idea how this 3-stroker works, but I will follow closely until I do.
My Grand Dad used to make triple expansion steam engines that would fit in your hands. Ran at 100psi and in a model tug boat 2'6" long would pull you up the river faster than you could swim. He died before I was born. Never saw one of his engines running but my older brother inherited one. By law he needs a full boiler ticket (as in Thomas the Tank engine) before he is allowed to start it. Amazing piece of engineering complete with cam opening/closing ports, not a single bearing or lubrication system yet it spins over so easily and smoothly, there is not a skeric of free play in any component.
Some people are gifted ....................... we stand in awe of you.
My Grand Dad used to make triple expansion steam engines that would fit in your hands. Ran at 100psi and in a model tug boat 2'6" long would pull you up the river faster than you could swim. He died before I was born. Never saw one of his engines running but my older brother inherited one. By law he needs a full boiler ticket (as in Thomas the Tank engine) before he is allowed to start it. Amazing piece of engineering complete with cam opening/closing ports, not a single bearing or lubrication system yet it spins over so easily and smoothly, there is not a skeric of free play in any component.
Some people are gifted ....................... we stand in awe of you.
I'd rather ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow.
- Questo vecchio rz
- Posts: 1116
- Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:55 pm
- Location: Reconquista of California
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
Just obvious examples of tube framed race bikes of various design.
A RZ even with aftermarket cylinders makes far, far less h.p. & tq. than any of these bikes.
All of these race bikes easily exceed 160 mph/257 km and the KTM RC13 should achive speed well over 200 mph/322km.
The RZ350 YPVS Has a frame design quite similar to the last generation TZ racebikes, yes dated but still capable & effective when set up and or modified either through the usual bolt ons & frame mids, or clever extensive reworking & experimentation of the total geometry, as Ulsterman is doing. Ive had & enjoy Delta Boxed chassis, but obviouslly a tube design is fully capable, pick your weapon. Fun stuff no doubt.
DUCATI'S dominant 9 series.
YAMAHAS dominant TZ750.
recent/current (new) SUZUKI XR69 Replicas, winning regularly often dominating.
The PATON no introduction necessary.
KTMs awesome RC8.
KTMs RC16, New for 2017 Moto GP , 260 h.p 200+ mph prototype machine..OMG..whats that...a tube frame? . If this bike is competitive, it might transform MOTO GP, as it is rumored that it can be bought by privateers.
A RZ even with aftermarket cylinders makes far, far less h.p. & tq. than any of these bikes.
All of these race bikes easily exceed 160 mph/257 km and the KTM RC13 should achive speed well over 200 mph/322km.
The RZ350 YPVS Has a frame design quite similar to the last generation TZ racebikes, yes dated but still capable & effective when set up and or modified either through the usual bolt ons & frame mids, or clever extensive reworking & experimentation of the total geometry, as Ulsterman is doing. Ive had & enjoy Delta Boxed chassis, but obviouslly a tube design is fully capable, pick your weapon. Fun stuff no doubt.
DUCATI'S dominant 9 series.
YAMAHAS dominant TZ750.
recent/current (new) SUZUKI XR69 Replicas, winning regularly often dominating.
The PATON no introduction necessary.
KTMs awesome RC8.
KTMs RC16, New for 2017 Moto GP , 260 h.p 200+ mph prototype machine..OMG..whats that...a tube frame? . If this bike is competitive, it might transform MOTO GP, as it is rumored that it can be bought by privateers.
Banshee (Baja) race bike,+ 2 A Arms,L.E.Ds, Toomey, +4 stroker IMS tank, run flats.
96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ/YZR bike(project)
86 VFR750 RC24 Merkel replica (project)
Royal Enfield Bullet 500
96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ/YZR bike(project)
86 VFR750 RC24 Merkel replica (project)
Royal Enfield Bullet 500
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- Posts: 1375
- Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:34 am
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
Thus exactly why I said perimeter mild steel...which none of the ducati or KTM bikes provided above are...
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
Coming back to your piston failure: A friend of mine is having them all the time between 1000 and 8000 road km.
The observation was that 110 mm rods eat them faster than 115 and cast pistons weren't a good choice, too.
His latest record was with Vertex, but at the end they also ate the inlet side of one piston.
He believes it's due to wider inlet ports, but In my opinion it's rpm and load related.
We're using pretty similar setups, but he likes to rev it high. My bikes last, his don't.
Conclusion for race use: use forged pistons, do not alter the existing piston windows.
Concerning the frame:
There's nothing wrong with the RZ frame except it's far too heavy.
The TZ frames used similar dimensions, but thinner wall tubing. Thus they saved some kg compared to the RZ.
If I were you I'd try to do an own one in thin CrMo tubing like my friend Max did:
http://forum.rd350lc.de/viewtopic.php?t=21837" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Another option would be the TZR250 2MA frame. It's one of the lightest stock bike frames you'll find (some 8 kg if my memory serves me right)
The observation was that 110 mm rods eat them faster than 115 and cast pistons weren't a good choice, too.
His latest record was with Vertex, but at the end they also ate the inlet side of one piston.
He believes it's due to wider inlet ports, but In my opinion it's rpm and load related.
We're using pretty similar setups, but he likes to rev it high. My bikes last, his don't.
Conclusion for race use: use forged pistons, do not alter the existing piston windows.
Concerning the frame:
There's nothing wrong with the RZ frame except it's far too heavy.
The TZ frames used similar dimensions, but thinner wall tubing. Thus they saved some kg compared to the RZ.
If I were you I'd try to do an own one in thin CrMo tubing like my friend Max did:
http://forum.rd350lc.de/viewtopic.php?t=21837" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Another option would be the TZR250 2MA frame. It's one of the lightest stock bike frames you'll find (some 8 kg if my memory serves me right)
Bye
Martin
Martin
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
I like the way there is a pause in the bike progress while a lathe is installed in the garage, then a bit more progress and then a mill is installed. That's commitment.MK wrote: If I were you I'd try to do an own one in thin CrMo tubing like my friend Max did:
http://forum.rd350lc.de/viewtopic.php?t=21837" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
First let me thank you all for the interest
I started the projects with the main goal of have a running motor for US patent
There is the Big RZ to try and keep me sane and have fun and then there is another one an Electric still at the frame and engine stage
that I can't release
()
John Britten was a great man and I have seen his bike and sat on it and infact one of my fellow competitors and countryman raced it
but sadly lost his life on one at the IOM in 1994 -Mark Farmer
()
There has been many frame design over the yrs and Quantel and then Ducati tried the stressed member which meant the frame/Engine is attached to the head stock and can have massive input to steering geo and performance
()
Two Northern Ireland engineers pioneered the feather-bed frame in the Norton over 50 yrs ago as a hanging part of the chassis and whither perimeter or hanging the result is the same
()
I used the RZ frame because I know were to address its short comings and to be honest with the frame being cut the way I have the difference between it and a 10,000 pressure counter pressure Alloy frame like the new machine it is just not worth the difference in cost
()
As I stated at the beginning it is to develop the motor and as a racer I can test what I have done and were the performance short comings are
()
I do hope that sharing these builds if even a small piece and new idea I can share with interested people that it helps in one way or another that it is all worth while -----Faster/cheaper and lots of fun -------Maybe one day I will actually make money from it lol
Laird
I started the projects with the main goal of have a running motor for US patent
There is the Big RZ to try and keep me sane and have fun and then there is another one an Electric still at the frame and engine stage
that I can't release
()
John Britten was a great man and I have seen his bike and sat on it and infact one of my fellow competitors and countryman raced it
but sadly lost his life on one at the IOM in 1994 -Mark Farmer
()
There has been many frame design over the yrs and Quantel and then Ducati tried the stressed member which meant the frame/Engine is attached to the head stock and can have massive input to steering geo and performance
()
Two Northern Ireland engineers pioneered the feather-bed frame in the Norton over 50 yrs ago as a hanging part of the chassis and whither perimeter or hanging the result is the same
()
I used the RZ frame because I know were to address its short comings and to be honest with the frame being cut the way I have the difference between it and a 10,000 pressure counter pressure Alloy frame like the new machine it is just not worth the difference in cost
()
As I stated at the beginning it is to develop the motor and as a racer I can test what I have done and were the performance short comings are
()
I do hope that sharing these builds if even a small piece and new idea I can share with interested people that it helps in one way or another that it is all worth while -----Faster/cheaper and lots of fun -------Maybe one day I will actually make money from it lol
Laird
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
http://kosonorthamerica.com/shop/motorc ... 16000-rpm/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bought one of these for the Big RZ --Tach and Temp and can be stand alone
Installed and hopefully does the buis-Anyone else installed one of these ?
Bought one of these for the Big RZ --Tach and Temp and can be stand alone
Installed and hopefully does the buis-Anyone else installed one of these ?
Last edited by ulsterman on Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
http://www.ecotrons.com/products/2_stro ... ction_kit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Working with this company for a fuel injection system -Anyone delt with this company and injection system before ?
Working with this company for a fuel injection system -Anyone delt with this company and injection system before ?
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
Very interesting project you have there
Have you had a look at Orbital engines tech?, you will find it in 2T outboards mainly, Mercury Optimax and BRP Evinrude I think use this type of technology
All the very best of Ulster luck to you
Have you had a look at Orbital engines tech?, you will find it in 2T outboards mainly, Mercury Optimax and BRP Evinrude I think use this type of technology
All the very best of Ulster luck to you
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
Yse the Orbital engine and Etec direct injection came out of Queens University in Belfast under professor Blair -Very Smart man on two strokers for sure
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
Orbital technology Originally developed here in Perth Australia by a Ralph Sarich
He seemed to have sold off the ideas to various firms around the world
I'm originally from Belfast however I don't think I'm related to Prof Blair, I believe he's a very smart man from what I've heard about him
I'll keep tabs on this build from time to time as I think it is a great project
He seemed to have sold off the ideas to various firms around the world
I'm originally from Belfast however I don't think I'm related to Prof Blair, I believe he's a very smart man from what I've heard about him
I'll keep tabs on this build from time to time as I think it is a great project
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
Personally I'd got with Megasuirtulsterman wrote:http://www.ecotrons.com/products/2_stro ... ction_kit/
Working with this company for a fuel injection system -Anyone delt with this company and injection system before ?
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- Posts: 104
- Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:13 am
- Location: West Aust
Re: RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project
The Orbital fuel injection system and Prof Blair are not connected(to my knowledge).
There were a few very smart ex-Queens University Mechanical engineers working at Orbital though.
The system was originally developed on the original "Orbital" engine and then applied to two strokes.
A direct injected two stroke runs very low emissions but there is a limited market.
There were a few very smart ex-Queens University Mechanical engineers working at Orbital though.
The system was originally developed on the original "Orbital" engine and then applied to two strokes.
A direct injected two stroke runs very low emissions but there is a limited market.