RZ Frame modified MOTO3 project

[seahorse]

JanBros
I read a few of your posts on the other forums, admittedly the KR1 didn't work out for the young bloke.
I think your being a bit harsh likening this build to the KR.
The RZ primary and swing arm pivot point relationship erred on the side of high from production, hence they were and still are a great wheelie machine. There is a thread on here somewhere that discusses the rotation around the fixed point and its effect on lifting the front and or pushing the fixed point down. (explained simply). If we are looking at the same pic, its not a problem that cant be sorted through sprocket changes, tyre height alteration, fork stem height etc, if infact it is identified as a problem in testing. Which I don't think it will be.
If you have ever ridden a half tuned RZ framed bike, weather it has standard running gear, or after market such as ( RGV VJ 22 ) or even an LC standard or with after market VJ22, or Aprillia suspension, they all have a propensity to be a bit light on the front. I know I have built and ridden them all. And I have done some fairly exhaustive comparison measurements when doing so. My faviourite as far as handling and ride feel, not that you'd be interested is the RZ with RGV VJ22 conversion.
I hope that you can contribute to this forum, but sitting back reading a shit load of posts then telling someone it will never work will not help anyone, if you see or may have experienced a problem and have first hand experience then speak up.
There are a few engineers on this forum will set you straight or even agree with you pending on your observations, so do be afraid, but please be constructive in your bravery.
Its like watching a game of pool and the guy misses a shot, and you say I knew he would miss that. You may and will find this forum very different to any you have ever been on. There are fuck all arguments, people use it to help and be helped.
Take this as an attempt to help.Or any way you like. Kind regards Seahorse.

[evan_calgary]

JanBros
I read a few of your posts on the other forums, admittedly the KR1 didn't work out for the young bloke.
I think your being a bit harsh likening this build to the KR.
The RZ primary and swing arm pivot point relationship erred on the side of high from production, hence they were and still are a great wheelie machine. There is a thread on here somewhere that discusses the rotation around the fixed point and its effect on lifting the front and or pushing the fixed point down. (explained simply). If we are looking at the same pic, its not a problem that cant be sorted through sprocket changes, tyre height alteration, fork stem height etc, if infact it is identified as a problem in testing. Which I don't think it will be.
If you have ever ridden a half tuned RZ framed bike, weather it has standard running gear, or after market such as ( RGV VJ 22 ) or even an LC standard or with after market VJ22, or Aprillia suspension, they all have a propensity to be a bit light on the front. I know I have built and ridden them all. And I have done some fairly exhaustive comparison measurements when doing so. My faviourite as far as handling and ride feel, not that you'd be interested is the RZ with RGV VJ22 conversion.
I hope that you can contribute to this forum, but sitting back reading a shit load of posts then telling someone it will never work will not help anyone, if you see or may have experienced a problem and have first hand experience then speak up.
There are a few engineers on this forum will set you straight or even agree with you pending on your observations, so do be afraid, but please be constructive in your bravery.
Its like watching a game of pool and the guy misses a shot, and you say I knew he would miss that. You may and will find this forum very different to any you have ever been on. There are fuck all arguments, people use it to help and be helped.
Take this as an attempt to help.Or any way you like. Kind regards Seahorse.

Must agree with this horse-of-the-sea. This is a very positive forum, always impressed and would like to keep it that way. I frequent this one more than others simply for that reason...

[T.RexRacing]

Ever since I've had the Fox Shock in there the rear has been run higher via shock length. Kept the front end down and in combination with an Öhlins damper and the tubes raised a bit in the trees it steers the way I like it.

[JanBros]

@ all : my apologies.

I certainly wasn't trying to compare these 2 projects with that misarable attempt in my link.

my native language is dutch, not english so I do not know how to make subtle differences between weird and weird.

the one in my link was weird as in "realy ??? did you think this through before you started" , as these 2 are weird as in "never seen something like this before" .


still curious as to where the compressed air for injection is comming from

[seahorse]

Ever since I've had the Fox Shock in there the rear has been run higher via shock length. Kept the front end down and in combination with an Öhlins damper and the tubes raised a bit in the trees it steers the way I like it.

When I have built the rz/rgv suspended bikes. I aim for the lowest profile front and the highest profile rear. Trial and error lead me to this, but i'm sure there is a mathematical explanation. If you have a problem with a bike falling into slow corners check your front, its either low on pressure or the profile is way to high. A combination of both will exadurate the problem. How those crew ride bobbers has got me completely stumped.
A higher rear tire profile is a must with the rgv rear wheel on an RZ. It contributes positively to steering, overall clearance for the fat section of pipes, and top end gearing. That's just my observations having built and ridden several of them.

[ulsterman]

Seahorse---I put a ZX6 front end and the rear wheel was from a Honda with 17 inch rims -Because the wheel size has gone down I took the swing arm spigot dim and dropped it by the same figure keeping the head angle the same -This give me under static load the proper position to locate the new Shock to the side of the frame that also in the future will have Ride height adjustment . Some I did on computer software but most form my racing numbers I have from the RZ days and what worked with the frame

[T.RexRacing]

Ever since I've had the Fox Shock in there the rear has been run higher via shock length. Kept the front end down and in combination with an Öhlins damper and the tubes raised a bit in the trees it steers the way I like it.

When I have built the rz/rgv suspended bikes. I aim for the lowest profile front and the highest profile rear. Trial and error lead me to this, but i'm sure there is a mathematical explanation. If you have a problem with a bike falling into slow corners check your front, its either low on pressure or the profile is way to high. A combination of both will exadurate the problem. How those crew ride bobbers has got me completely stumped.
A higher rear tire profile is a must with the rgv rear wheel on an RZ. It contributes positively to steering, overall clearance for the fat section of pipes, and top end gearing. That's just my observations having built and ridden several of them.

I had no intent of telling anyone how to set up their bike just stating my preference. I love a bike that borders on head shake. Makes suspension settings critical as well as mandating a damper. High speed weepers bore me to tears. I love a tight technical road that is terrifying at 70MPH.

On my Tuono the rear is 8MM higher from shock length,10MM from tire size (180/55 from 190/50) and the forks are 35MM up in the trees. Almost telepathic steering. The RZ isn't set up that radical nor do I believe it would tolerate it. Believe it or not the Tuono steers easily but is neutral,stable and changes direction like a 'Tard with 130 HP. So easy and confidence inspiring to ride. Wonderful ride.

Didn't mean to hijack thread. Sorry.

[ulsterman]

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This is what happens when you dont have the big money that Honda and corporations have
Only good thing is they are about 7 yrs behind me so on i go and trying to finish as fast as i can with the cash i have

[nokturnal]

photo update for Laird

[nokturnal]

at 2T now too... about time

[ulsterman]

I am sorry guys for not posting much but i had a Brother die in September and took to November to sort a lot of stuff out
I haven't got much further with the Moto3 other than it will appear this season as just a Honda 250 to get the frame and swing arm and stuff sorted
The Guy looking after the ECU is having family problems and i cant push him to finish and dont have the cash for a Motech M84 system to help finish it
and it would be a gamble even if i bought it
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The large RZ350/390 is coming along fast and i just got the 4mm stroker crank and piston kit and the motor is not far away from being finished
It will end up about 390cc with the power valves still and 40mm PWK carbs with NSR rear end and CBR600 front
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The other motor from the RZ is now well on its way to being a six speed electric engine that i am very close to finishing and will fit into the RZ frame for testing -this one may end up being sold to the University after proof of concept
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This is the Large RZ project
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https://www.facebook.com/laird.shinglet ... 008&type=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
this is the Electric Project
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https://www.facebook.com/laird.shinglet ... 008&type=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Moto3 in its current state
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Thanks for looking and hopefully i will make the first round here this year at the end of April with or both of the bikes
Laird

[ulsterman]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
More updates on the RZ350 now a RZ400 and if i can find a set of proper race pipes taking it to the track this weekend
The Moto3 has more updates and is completely finished just waiting on ECU completion still and beyond my control
Unless someone knows how to raise funds for a Mototech System 84 which is option 2

[hondaror]

Very nice!!!

[ulsterman]

RZ400 makes her first trip onto the track
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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Tough weekend and biggest problem is the 30 yrs old electronics already in the garbage -need a PVL /Motoplat or Hitachi
Bike handled brilliant and needs some new pipes to let her breath now
Engine seems very strong even at low revs

[nokturnal]