Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter view

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Frank t
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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#16 Post by Frank t » Wed May 04, 2016 12:16 pm

Hooligan wrote: Most 4-strokes will go 100,000 miles plus if taken care of. I don't see any 2-stroke coming anywhere close to that.
Actually I have owned a GT750, and have seen several others, that had around 100k miles without any major engine work. Not a performance machine for sure, but durable if cared for.
Frank Tarpley
1988 TDR250, 1974 GT380, 1968 Cobra, 1984/1987 RZ350, 1983 BMW R80st

LC Cnd
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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#17 Post by LC Cnd » Thu May 05, 2016 1:46 am

Purchased a Vertex piston kit (banshee tabs removed) for the LC I'm breaking in. What I noted is the rings, on the Vertex product, are groved in the centre. Is that for quicker seating during break in (while using mineral oil) perhaps? Jury is still out on the mineral oil. Just charged the battery. Gettin closer.

seahorse
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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#18 Post by seahorse » Thu May 05, 2016 6:27 pm

Get the bores polished to get rid of all that unsightly cross hatching, follow the run in guide for a Honda 750/4 and the best synthetic oil from the first kick and you'll be good to go.
81 RD 250 LC Hybrid .Widened frame with Aprilia RS250 Back end & Front end, strokd RZ 421, Kennys TSA's, 31KVM26SS Carbs M-360 P-25 ALBA Ndl Pos 3, Air 1.3/4
81Rd350lc resto 2016
81 Rd250lc resto 2017
1999 ZRX 1100

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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#19 Post by seahorse » Thu May 05, 2016 6:33 pm

Hooligan wrote:
seahorse wrote: I was advised also that for a new crank, do a few up hill runs in a high gear at the beginning of the break in period.
This makes no sense at all. A hard run up hill in high gear would put a ton of stress on the crank bearings. Not something you'd want to do to a new crank.
Yet you understand why?
Now that makes no sense to me.

To clarify I make sure my cranks are the best they can be, this test is recommended by the engineer who builds my cranks, better a failure up hill than a top out revs downhill failure.
Bedding the rings is a given.
With mineral oil to start that is.
81 RD 250 LC Hybrid .Widened frame with Aprilia RS250 Back end & Front end, strokd RZ 421, Kennys TSA's, 31KVM26SS Carbs M-360 P-25 ALBA Ndl Pos 3, Air 1.3/4
81Rd350lc resto 2016
81 Rd250lc resto 2017
1999 ZRX 1100

LC Cnd
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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#20 Post by LC Cnd » Fri May 06, 2016 1:06 am

Mineral oil it is...

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South_Oz
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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#21 Post by South_Oz » Fri May 06, 2016 4:41 am

As Seahorse says, Mineral oil and load. As far as I know ball bearings dont need to be run in.

Dave
RZ 250 85 (Waiting)
RZ 250 85 (Parts)
RGV VJ21 250, Australian Speed Record Holder, MPS/G 250, 140.5 MPH
BMW R1100S 99 (Its Red)
BMW R1200GS (Its BIG)


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hondaror
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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#22 Post by hondaror » Wed Jun 29, 2016 2:37 am

Break in? I'll chime in now. A tank of gas. Two or three heat cycles of blipping the throttle. Then ride it without excessive revving. After tank one, you can give 'er. Ride like you stole it. That's the best thing for a 2 stroke. My LC had over 100,000 on the original crank. A rebore at 50,000. The serial was 0001111.
Rory
2 1984 RZ350s
1985 RZ350
9 1986-1990 RZ350s
2000 ST2
2005 749
2005 749 with 999 engine

kampinguru
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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#23 Post by kampinguru » Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:52 am

evan_calgary wrote:
Bare wrote:
LC Cnd wrote:
These are not durable engines,(spare me :smt002 except in a few cases... sadly, like winning the Lotto.. it always happens to someone else.
This is completely NOT true. These are EXTREMELY durable engines. The RZ can be beat, abused, and rarely worked on and it generally will hold up. Ask just about anyone that owned one back in the day. I expect Rory will say the same for his old LC that he routinely says he beat the heck out of. There was an entire race series using the stock form of these bikes for the exact reason that they were cheap and durable plus good power for the price.
I agree with Evan. I raced in that series and never rebuilt the engine in three years of racing.

Bare
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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#24 Post by Bare » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:39 pm

I find that an extraordinary claim.
Used to field Tz350's.. for Yama.. in the early 70's. Engines received top end rebuilds after Every race outing.
Total 100% engine rebuilds monthly or less, dependant on usage and the telltales on the rev counters.
It's Racing.. point being to win, can't do that on off peak perf gear.
Claims of a season of racing or God forbid years !! on a single engine sans even a refresh are Laughable.
As are ones of 100k miles 'road use. Good luck with that one.. 25, 30K is credible/proven with care and respect,
but 100K ? only if the thing never saw 5k rpms.
C'mon Kids this is real life..silly claims helps No one.

whyzee79
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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#25 Post by whyzee79 » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:15 pm

apples and oranges.

LC Cnd
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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#26 Post by LC Cnd » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:35 am

Well just past 515kms this week - so break in is complete. Followed what I 1st stated in this thread. Appreciate all the following comments (incl'ing the race ones). Round 6000 rpm the power stoke kicks in and she'll pull to 10000 (did this once just to see). Popped my 1st wheelie surprisingly. Going to unisyc the carbs once the proper single stage carbon fiber reeds are installed: probably TDR's. The Microns are stinking loud. Loving it - I almost consider their sound a safty feature. Had issues with a leaky reed gasket - patched. All said - success.

Hooligan
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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#27 Post by Hooligan » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:02 am

seahorse wrote: Re the run in I run a few heat cycles checking the head bolts after each cycle.
And not over 7000 for the first few runs.
Heat cycles and head retorque are a good idea.
I was advised also that for a new crank, do a few up hill runs in a high gear at the beginning of the break in period.
If unsure go by the book.
I fail to see how this relates to the crank? For sure it relates to seating the rings to the barrels. High gear, load on the motor and full throttle puts pressure on the rings and helps them to seat into the barrels.

South_Oz wrote:As Seahorse says, Mineral oil and load. As far as I know ball bearings dont need to be run in.

Dave
Correct. How would ball bearings even be "broken in" without being destroyed in the process?
Last edited by Hooligan on Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
'82 RD350LC in '81 colours, OEM pipes, UNI filters
'85 FZ750

Hooligan
Posts: 1966
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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#28 Post by Hooligan » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:17 am

The vast majority of Factory "break in" is a load of hooey. It is purely legal ass-covering on the part of the factory and has next to nothing to do with actually breaking in an engine. You can look it up, but the very first thing the factory assembly lines do with the newly installed motor is to start it up and pin the thing for a second or two.

The factory break in schedule is entirely meant to ensure the new rider/owner gets used to their new bike and its performance on a sliding scale. Does anyone really think the factory gives a hoot if the motor lasts a long time? Wouldn't it be better financially for the company if their engines wore out quickly and thus encouraged people to buy new bikes?

Does anyone really think that anything in the main bearings changes over the first few hundred kms of operation? Cause if they did significantly change then the motors wouldn't last more than a few thousand kms before the crank bearings were worn out. Either the motor is going to hold together right from the get-go or it isn't and slowly working into the engine's performance isn't going to change that either way.

Ive broken in a number of street and race engines the MotoMan way http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm , which is to spend about 100 kms running the engine through the entire rev range and putting a bunch of load on it in order to seat the rings to the bores. In essence it is a bunch of caning the thing in too high of a gear to put stress and load on the rings. Then change the oil and ride the thing how you want to ride it.

The end result has been bikes that have run perfectly well under extremely abusive conditions. ie, I am hard on my equipment. ;)

My SV650 did a season on the street and then three seasons of road racing and it never missed a beat and produced max HP till I sold it. This was a HP limited class so we had to go up on the dyno after ever race, which was nice cause it was easy to see if the motor was performing properly.
'82 RD350LC in '81 colours, OEM pipes, UNI filters
'85 FZ750

Hooligan
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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#29 Post by Hooligan » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:18 am

Bare wrote:I find that an extraordinary claim.
Used to field Tz350's.. for Yama.. in the early 70's. Engines received top end rebuilds after Every race outing.
Total 100% engine rebuilds monthly or less, dependant on usage and the telltales on the rev counters.
It's Racing.. point being to win, can't do that on off peak perf gear.
Claims of a season of racing or God forbid years !! on a single engine sans even a refresh are Laughable.
As are ones of 100k miles 'road use. Good luck with that one.. 25, 30K is credible/proven with care and respect,
but 100K ? only if the thing never saw 5k rpms.
C'mon Kids this is real life..silly claims helps No one.
There have been a number of 2-stroke boat and car engines that demonstrate quite long lives. The infamous East German Trabant was a 2-stroke and those things seemed to run forever.
'82 RD350LC in '81 colours, OEM pipes, UNI filters
'85 FZ750

hondaror
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Re: Proper LC engine break in 1st 500kms (300mi) counter vie

#30 Post by hondaror » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:25 am

Bare wrote:I find that an extraordinary claim.
Used to field Tz350's.. for Yama.. in the early 70's. Engines received top end rebuilds after Every race outing.
Total 100% engine rebuilds monthly or less, dependant on usage and the telltales on the rev counters.
It's Racing.. point being to win, can't do that on off peak perf gear.
Claims of a season of racing or God forbid years !! on a single engine sans even a refresh are Laughable.
As are ones of 100k miles 'road use. Good luck with that one.. 25, 30K is credible/proven with care and respect,
but 100K ? only if the thing never saw 5k rpms.
C'mon Kids this is real life..silly claims helps No one.
Sorry, my TZ250s used to get three weekends of riding, then the tear down, inspection and rebuild as necessary. My '81 LC, 106,000 kms on original crank, with a top end rebuild at 50,000kms because of piston slap.
An RZ350 at 50-60 claimed hp, does not compare to a TZ250's 79 claimed hp. No comparing the performance or reliability of the two. The full blown racer requires much more effort, $$$$. The street bike can and was flogged daily, raced, neglected, overevved, modified, wheelied, and it is exceptional with regards to reliability. I don't think you should pretend to know what I put my LC through in 9 years, and I don't appreciate being called incapable, or a liar.
Rory
2 1984 RZ350s
1985 RZ350
9 1986-1990 RZ350s
2000 ST2
2005 749
2005 749 with 999 engine

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