Rearset interest

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2bang
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Re: Rearset interest

#376 Post by 2bang » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:11 am

THANKS SO MUCH!!!
I'm thinking of doing a write-up of all these details to post here, once I have everything all mounted up and working... to make a complete instruction set for these rearsets.
Greg

RuZty
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Re: Rearset interest

#377 Post by RuZty » Thu Aug 18, 2016 9:34 am

No problem. Here is what you want if there is a KTM dealer near you; https://www.google.ca/search?client=saf ... uwTmtarYDQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2bang
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Re: Rearset interest

#378 Post by 2bang » Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:57 pm

Thanks again....
I think that KTM on ebay works ok for me....
BTW... OPP finally returned my email... order will ship tomorrow (or so he says)..
Looks like I'm stuck with that mechanical switch..... grumble grumble...
At least I'd thought to order several copper washers....
Greg

2bang
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Re: Rearset interest

#379 Post by 2bang » Thu Aug 18, 2016 4:00 pm

Bought the KTM ;-)

EEEP! I bought the one in the original link..... (from the earlier post)... HOPE ITS OK!!!


Hmmm.... wouldn't it be nice if it were the proper connector too..
Greg

2bang
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Re: Rearset interest

#380 Post by 2bang » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:22 pm

Well, I FINALLY got everything I need to mount these rearsets.... except for the linkage rod, which I'll soon order, after measuring.
(I can't say ENOUGH BAD things about OPP-Racing, but I'll leave it at that...... waited months..)

Also, tomorrow is scheduled for a major garage organization project, so that I'll finally be able to work on the bike extensively..
Weather will finally cool down a bit soon too... (impossible out there right now, here in SoFla)

So.... what I'd like to know, when I go out to measure:
Should the Shifter knuckle be vertical? Near vertical? Aligned with the brake-pedal-tab, whatever it's angle? Doesn't matter at all?
Is there a rule of thumb for this? Somthing to shoot for?

Seems to me that.... given that the rods have limited adjustment, you have to set pedal angle, then align the shifter knuckle roughly to that angle??

Any thoughts most appreciated...
Greg

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kpke
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Re: Rearset interest

#381 Post by kpke » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:29 am

I have to believe that you are going to want to be close to vertical. The further you stray away from that, the more effort it will take to shift.

Here is a post I did earlier in this thread. You can see where I ended up with the shifter knuckle. I have not ridden this bike just yet though.


kpke wrote:I used these ebay rod ends. Be forewarned they are China parts so you may die if use them.

4pcs 6mm Female Rod End 2 Right and 2 Left Hand Metric Threaded Joint Bearing

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271036141242?ru ... 26_rdc%3D1

Ordered these rods

FAST FROM THE PAST
205MM AND 225MM
M/F connecting rods

Currently have the 205mm installed. The longer one would be used if I adjust the rear sets back further.

Shifter knuckle is 2003 R6.

Also note the pressure switch at the banjo fitting.

Image


Image

RuZty
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Re: Rearset interest

#382 Post by RuZty » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:42 am

As you can see in Kens pic, the shift arm and the lever arm are close to parallel and also 90 degrees to the shift rod. This is the ideal condition (realistically the middle of the travel would be at 90).
Rotate the arm and lever clockwise and the effort will decrease as you shift (up to 90 degrees), rotate them CCW and it will get harder the farther you get from 90.

2bang
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Re: Rearset interest

#383 Post by 2bang » Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:44 am

Yes, I'm recalling now!
From messing with self-made rearsets in the late 70s...
The further away you went from vertical on the shift arm, the worse it was.. decreasing leverage, and bind-up.
I knew there was some rhyme/reason to it.

I certainly recall those pix.... even downloaded them a while back... (for details sake, but also to admire them... super clear pix, beautiful bike...... pity you STILL haven't ridden it!!! :D )
Also consulted them just before my OP.
That post was also exactly when I came into the thread...
I'd googled "adjustable rearsets RZ350" and that page was the first link that came up.

So I guess its: keep shift arm close as possible to vertical, and as close as possible to both at the same angle.. given that the pedal-arm needs to be some amount off vertical.

Particularly for me, since I'm 6'4"...
In fact, its the whole reason I searched for and got these rearsets.
Tall and old and stiff...
A buddy had just said... sell em... you can't even get on them anymore..
That shocked me... so I sat on the RZ.. He was right... WITH the Raasks that were on the bike.
BUT, I knew that I had trouble fitting on with those, in my prime... mid 20s...
It was a huge handicap while racing.... I couldn't move around at all. Totally locked in..
(and horribly uncomfy... cramps came fast.... slightly distracting while on the track!)
Huge limiting factor...

So that's the whole reason for getting these....

Before trial mounting them, I started with the pegs in the front-most/lowest position.
And Voila!!!! Problem solved!! :D :D :D
I did notice, however, that my toes needed to be a bit on the low side....
Hopefully I can wind up with a position similar to the pic.
I'll have to raise up the clipons also though, till they touch the top clamp... (telefix adjustables)
But that's another matter...

Thanks as always Gents!!!
Greg

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Re: Rearset interest

#384 Post by RuZty » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:07 am

2bang wrote: So I guess its: keep shift arm close as possible to vertical, and as close as possible to both at the same angle.. given that the pedal-arm needs to be some amount off vertical.
It doesn't need to be vertical, it needs to be close to parallel to the arm pushing on it. Connect the dots, lever pivot to shift shaft, shift arm, shift rod and back to the lever pivot. Should be close to a rectangle, or a parallelogram leaning a bit to the right. A trapezoid won't work too good. Draw some different cases on a piece of paper and you'll see that the further you get from ideal the faster it gets bad. The relative length of the 2 arms has a dramatic effect on the feel and effort required to shift.

Image

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kpke
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Re: Rearset interest

#385 Post by kpke » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:09 am

Sure is great to have smart people around here ^^^^^^^

Really :smt045

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Re: Rearset interest

#386 Post by RuZty » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:33 pm

Thanks Ken, I didn't draw that, I just googled 4 bar linkage pics until I found one that got the point across. It's easier to understand than it is to explain without a picture. Same logic applies when messing with suspension linkages, not understanding it can make things go bad fast.
Funny coincidence, one of our engineering interns just went back to school and is working on a Formula SAE car and invited me to a time trial event today that one of the teams organized at Mosport. It's basically a small single seat race car with a 600 bike engine (R6 in this case), and I spent half the morning getting a cobbled up shifter working after the original cable failed and they didn't have a direct replacement.

PS. We don't split atoms (or stick them back together) where I work :smt002

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kpke
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Re: Rearset interest

#387 Post by kpke » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:08 am

RuZty wrote:
PS. We don't split atoms (or stick them back together) where I work :smt002
Funny thing...Where I work we do split atoms :smt005

2bang
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Re: Rearset interest

#388 Post by 2bang » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:48 am

kpke wrote:
RuZty wrote: PS. We don't split atoms (or stick them back together) where I work :smt002
Funny thing...Where I work we do split atoms :smt005
Where I work..... I mainly just try to split.....
Greg

2bang
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Re: Rearset interest

#389 Post by 2bang » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:11 am

kpke wrote:Sure is great to have smart people around here ^^^^^^^
Amen to that!!!!

Wow! Fantastic!
That really did the trick Russ... totally get it now. AND the why of it!

Parallel....
As close to as reasonably possible..
Totally makes sense why it gets bad fast, the more off from ideal.
Confirms/explains the empirical experience of it too.

Though even if parallel, to far around the circle, and you begin to lose leverage...
Far enough, and zero leverage... IE: both at 90 degrees from the vertical.

Definitely easier to understand than to explain..

Also, good call on the R6 knuckle KP.... Nice and long.
A fair amount moreso than the stocker, IIRC.

RE: suspension linkages... that calls to mind the DrJohn Guzzi racer of the 80s.. (assuming anyone else is old enough to remember it)
He stuck with the shaft drive which perplexed everyone....
Turns out he'd designed a parallelogram suspension for it.
http://www.mgcn.nl/html/drjohns.htm Just incidentally.

Btw... Loved the Mosport story!!

Greg
Greg

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gammaguy21
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Re: Rearset interest

#390 Post by gammaguy21 » Wed Sep 28, 2016 10:59 am

RuZty wrote: It doesn't need to be vertical, it needs to be close to parallel to the arm pushing on it. Connect the dots, lever pivot to shift shaft, shift arm, shift rod and back to the lever pivot. Should be close to a rectangle, or a parallelogram leaning a bit to the right. A trapezoid won't work too good. Draw some different cases on a piece of paper and you'll see that the further you get from ideal the faster it gets bad. The relative length of the 2 arms has a dramatic effect on the feel and effort required to shift.

Image
Fantastic! Thanks for that post RuZty. :smt023

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