Which Steering Damper?

[Consciousness]

I am about to get into the front end which requires steering head bearings as mine are shot, while i'm there i was looking at a steering damper and i have a few questions.

Do i need a damper or will new allballs bearings make all the difference i need?

If a damper is recommended for this wheelie machine is the Scotts style worth the extra over the NHK fork mounted style?

Would this do the job in place of a Scotts damper?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Motor ... 2477&rt=nc

[JonW]

looks like a copy of the scotts. will scotts sell you a mounting kit i wonder?

[hondaror]

Bearings have nothing to do with dampening the front end. The bearing replacement will assure smooth front end steering function. Failed ball bearings can bung up and interfere with steering smoothly. Tapered roller bearings are stronger and last longer than ball bearings alone, but do wear out as well.
Whether or not you need a damper totally depends on your riding abilities and how much you push the bike. If you are hard on the gas and smooth with the throttle application, your need won't be as great as hard on the gas and choppy with the throttle. When the front end gets light is when you can get into trouble with the dreaded tank slapper. Generally heavier bikes fall into the tank slapper category. I've never had the need to install one on my 350s. The 500 was another story. My TZ250s were also equipped with one. I plan on building a track and heavily modified street RZ and both will have fork style dampers. My stock RZ rebuild will not be equipped.

[JonW]

Its always said that 'some bikes need them' but Ive also been told that it just means the suspension needs to be tuned better. My own experience of hitting a lump in the surface at 140+mph and seeing the steering damper do its work as I was videoing was a revalation, but I would agree I did little to tune the R1s suspension to my weight / sag etc so it wasnt like I could expect it to be amazing, even tho the bike was new.

[Smoker]

It's impossible to say with certainty if you will need the steering damper, or not.

If you have a steering damper when you need it - it may save your life. That I can say with certainty.

[Consciousness]

Thanks for the replies, looks like i will get a damper to be on the safe side. The steering head bearings are being replaced by a shop next Thursday so the front end will be off, would you guys go the Scotts style since the welding could take place easily then or is this overkill? Gotta say it looks the bees knees though.





Here's a link on this forum i found laying down the process, if i went this route i would buy the mounting plate and a used damper, or maybe the Chinese knock off if i can find feedback on it.

http://www.rzrd500.com/phpBB3/viewtopic ... 6&start=30

Of course its a much cheaper option to go with a steel NHK fork/frame damper, not as a attractive to my eye though, i wonder if one performs better than the other as the designs are radically different.

[mkane]

There's only one Scotts. Buy junk and you take your chances.

[Consciousness]

Bearings have nothing to do with dampening the front end. The bearing replacement will assure smooth front end steering function. Failed ball bearings can bung up and interfere with steering smoothly. Tapered roller bearings are stronger and last longer than ball bearings alone, but do wear out as well.
Whether or not you need a damper totally depends on your riding abilities and how much you push the bike. If you are hard on the gas and smooth with the throttle application, your need won't be as great as hard on the gas and choppy with the throttle. When the front end gets light is when you can get into trouble with the dreaded tank slapper. Generally heavier bikes fall into the tank slapper category. I've never had the need to install one on my 350s. The 500 was another story. My TZ250s were also equipped with one. I plan on building a track and heavily modified street RZ and both will have fork style dampers. My stock RZ rebuild will not be equipped.

Some how i skipped this response. Thanks Hondaror, i do pop the bike up frequently, today it popped up unexpectedly coming out of a corner and the bars gave a little wiggle which didn't feel that safe, a mixture of crappy bearings and no damping i imagine. I tend to be aggressive only because i ride in nyc and brooklyn which is no better really, so i get my kicks from light to light generally, although i got out to NJ yesterday up the pacific palisades pkwy and had over a ton a few times, toomey's howling lol.

I think the added expense and the fact your going with a fork mount damper on your race bike means i will go the NHK route, that brings up the question of which model, i was looking at these:


http://www.mikesxs.net/product/28-4008.html

Screen Shot 2015-03-12 at 4.11.07 PM.png (227.71 KiB) Viewed 8202 times

http://www.fastfromthepast.com/odm3000e

[slinger]

Just answer these question if you need a damper.

Does the bike have head shake flat out? yes=damper no=don;t need one
Does the bike weave when going in a straight line at speed yes =damper no=don't need one

It's that simple!

[Consciousness]

Just answer these question if you need a damper.

Does the bike have head shake flat out? yes=damper no=don;t need one
Does the bike weave when going in a straight line at speed yes =damper no=don't need one

It's that simple!

The answer is no on both accounts, i felt neither if those symptoms yesterday flat out on the parkway. Save some $$ there and spend elsewhere i guess.

[JonW]

I think even if you said yes to those questions that you could have some other issues, tyre pressure, old tyres and old suspension can create wobbles and shakes that you would be better off fixing rather than masking the problem. Dont get me wrong I dont mind dampers, but can be a fix not a cure on our bikes.

[hondaror]

I still say, if you weave at high speed your rear wheel is misaligned. That is when sighting is so important. It cures so many potential problems, and makes for awesome handling. Side to side cornering is so much smoother.

For a damper, never buy the cheapest, go middle of the road or better.

These 350s don't really need them if they are set-up right. They are cool to have.

The TZ250s need it, because of steeper rake.

[JonW]

Swingarm bearings can cause the same weave, there really is a lot of moving parts in the RZ suspension and you dont need eahc of them to be out much to have the rear wheel move side to side...

[hondaror]

+1 Jon

I was assuming all else was well.

[Consciousness]

I decided with the good weather coming that since i will probably be getting out of NYC onto the open road and unavoidably some highways that the possibility of a tankslapper or similar headshake situation could increase.

One of the coolest roads nearby is the sawmill parkway, an undulating 2 lane road that i once unintentionally drifted my since sold Mazda Miata on while coming over a crest on a right hand downhill bend at around 80mph, lucky for me the Miata is pretty benign and just broke into a progressive slide while i first prayed and then smiled as it just straightened up with the road without a twitch. If i can have a little of that assurance when things get tricky i'' take it.

Following the advice that it's not wise to skimp i started to look at Ohlins which seem to be what a lot of the pros use, the model in particular that seems to fit the RZ is the SD003 with a 120mm stroke (is this enough?) pictured below.

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The one i found on ebay didn't sell as bidding started at $200, it was offered to me for $190 shipped after the auction and includes the fork bracket which would be of no use since i have smaller forks, i do however have a fork bracket that came fitted on my bike that has a threaded hole where it attaches to the damper. It isn't much more than the high-end NHK but of course it is used.

Would you guys go with a used $400 damper from Sweden for $190 shipped or a new Japanese damper for $165+S&H?

Cheers