Bad Clutch Shudder

[RZResurection]

You need 2 of these and 2 of these.

Thanks T. The links didn't show at all. Not until I hit the quote/reply.

I'm thinking this will be part of this years winter project.

[RZResurection]

I'm still amazed/struck by the fitting of a 180 Tire.
130's Rub the chain.
Is it possible the Goofy Offset Engine sprocket is The cause.
As in it's not running true and /or it's causing some weird wobble on heavily loaded startup?

I don't have any previous experience with an offset sprocket. Seahorse was saying the he has a similar offset and has no ill effects, but he did replace the engine mount dampers (next on my list) and rebuilt the clutch basket damping pucks (which I had previously done).

My alignment is pretty good. I don't see any issue with it or at least anything that would transmit this kind of problem.

To me it still feels like the engine is trying to transmit power to the rear tire, but it just can't get the rear tire accelerate to match the output shaft

[seahorse]

I'm still amazed/struck by the fitting of a 180 Tire.
130's Rub the chain.
Is it possible the Goofy Offset Engine sprocket is The cause.
As in it's not running true and /or it's causing some weird wobble on heavily loaded startup?

I think R6 rims & FJ swinger are involved hare Bare

[JonW]

Jeff if you can buy (or borrow) a PROFI CAT type laser then you should be able to see if the chain is perfectly in line. My 421 felt and looked fine but Ive found with the laser that its about 5mm out! Luckily ive not run it in anger yet.

[silverstrom]

Any chance the relocated swinger pivot is causing the back end to load up and that is stressing the clutch just as much as the huge tire?

[seahorse]

I'm still amazed/struck by the fitting of a 180 Tire.
130's Rub the chain.
Is it possible the Goofy Offset Engine sprocket is The cause.
As in it's not running true and /or it's causing some weird wobble on heavily loaded startup?

I don't have any previous experience with an offset sprocket. Seahorse was saying the he has a similar offset and has no ill effects, but he did replace the engine mount dampers (next on my list) and rebuilt the clutch basket damping pucks (which I had previously done).

My alignment is pretty good. I don't see any issue with it or at least anything that would transmit this kind of problem.

To me it still feels like the engine is trying to transmit power to the rear tire, but it just can't get the rear tire accelerate to match the output shaft

Alignment has to be better than pretty good. It has to be straight. In the past I have written a huge blurb about this and how I did it.
Nick fubar has some excellent info on the subject as well.
I would recommend that you go back to basics.
Put bike on centerstand
Remove front sprocket side cover
Remove chain
Line up the back axle with the same alignment mark each side. ( don't even look at the sprockets whilst your doing this) ( better is to measure that back axle is running parallel to the swingarm pivot bolt) Nick fubar referred to or made a special pointer tool to measure swingarm pivot bolt and rear axle accurately.
Once you are satisfied that the axle is square, ( wheel is running straight) then you can check how the sprockets line up.

I use a large loop of builders/ brickies string, the stuff you can pull very tight. Make the loop slightly longer than the overall distance from front to back sprocket.
Hook string front and back, then just rotate the back wheel rearwards to tighten the string line.
You want the string line running from the top down about 20 mm. on both sprockets front to back. You can fine adjust by just looping the string around the teeth.

By using this method " the loop" you can look along the line inside and out and down from the top.

Others use a flat long bar, a laser pointer may be a realy good and simple method.

I solved my hybrid issue using this method, as mentioned in the end I ran an 18 off set, with 3 mill shaved from my rear sprocket carrier to achieve around a 14 off set.

At any rate I cant emphasise enough how important it is that you chain is running straight. The last thing anyone wants is a chain to come off while riding.

While on the subject of chains, make sure yours is not to tight, obviously after you are satisfied its running straight.
You need to be sitting on the bike to then check the tension adjustment. I've made the mistake in the past of over tightening chains which results in all sorts of noises and dramas. Not discounting damage that can be done to overloaded primary drives as a result.
The Yamaha manual has a good reference to correct chain tension ( slight disclaimer there )

Food for thought.

[seahorse]

God that shits me I just spent the last 1/2 hour typing that shit and John and Long John chime in, FFS have you guys got a bug in my house.

[JonW]

Yes... and put yer trousers back on horsey!

[JonW]

I would add that I would defo start with aligning the rear axle with the swingarm pivot, you need to make a pointer tool for that, you cant trust the adjuster marks. I them use the laser to see whats happening, it will be right or it wont be, ive done them by eye and they felt good on the road, but the laser then told me it was 1mm out. 1mm is probbaly ok on a chain run, but we like it right dont we.

[seahorse]

You got me, wife at work, me home alone with the computer.
I might fish out some ELO from my CD collection and blow up the rubber doll later.

[JonW]

Too funny!

[silverstrom]

I might fish out some ELO from my CD collection and blow up the rubber doll later.

ELO...so you're a 21st Century Man?

[RuZty]

Don't assume that the front sprocket is parallel to the bike centreline. There is all kinds of play in the motor mount brackets and bolt holes. I went to great pains on my hybrid to find the CL of the front, line up the rear axle parallel to the swingers pivot, and then centre the rear wheel. Once I had the wheels lined up perfectly I put a long straight edge on the front sprocket and then adjusted engine position to get it parallel to the rear sprocket before determining required sprocket offset.

[JonW]

thats a very good point, you only have to incorrectly fit or leave off a damper and it would be a few mm out at least.

[seahorse]

I might fish out some ELO from my CD collection and blow up the rubber doll later.

ELO...so you're a 21st Century Man?

It,s magic