RZ/RD 350 & Misc. 2-Stroke Tech BBS

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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber wheels
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:03 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:17 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Pennsylvania
I have seen bare CF wheels for todays superbikes going for about $1200 apiece, so adding in the ceramic bearings, oversize discs and hardware would probably blow it up to $2200 per end.
Funny thing though, is I aint crazy about he look of carbon fiber. I would much rather have them body color and be sneaky.
Look like stock, go like stink!
-Z


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber wheels
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 8:27 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Brisbane OZ
There's a set in Australia (E-bay) off an RS250 with tyres and discs, never used for AUD$3700 approx USD$2800

You can pant them, I prefer wide polished alloy spoked rims, have considered chrome painting rim, leaving spokes/hub CF.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RS250-BST-mo ... 2296408988

But I would sell the discs on, forget wavy rotor bling bull shizzer.
If you spend the money on lightest wheels, why add the heaviest discs. Weigh everything accurately.

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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber wheels
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:47 pm 
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Location: Reconquista of California
Smoker wrote:
Questo vecchio rz wrote:
I doubt he will find nor get Dymag or PVM to offer any 18" or 17" 4.5"w RZ compatible wheels, but you never know ?


Dymag will make wheels with custom fitment.


Out of curiosity for others, I inquired directly & I was sent a reply from Dymag & Orient Express. Dymag only stocks & sells 1 wheel for a direct fit onto a "stock" 18" RZ350 its the Magnesium 3 triangular 3 spoke.

They each replied (paraphrasing) " Sorry, we do not offer any other wheel, such as multi spoke magnesium nor carbon fiber wheels for that fitment, nor would we manufactuer any for a direct fitment for that application" :smt012

I'm not sure about PVM but Im betting no carbon fiber either, theres no market for them.

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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber wheels
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:24 pm 
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Well, of course the answer would be NO. :smt003

What are you asking? For them to get Vintage RZ wheels and start measuring to fab up wheels for a few guys on the planet that want them? Even you, the person asking, is not interested in buying.

When you're serious, send them a CAD drawing of what you want, and tell them you're ready to buy. I used my own measured specs, and they had no problem with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber wheels
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:10 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 5:17 pm
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Location: Pennsylvania
But if I'm running a popular front end, like a GSXR or R1, the wheels would be readily available. Since I'm planning on a RGV/RSV250 frame anyway, it would make sense to run the GSXR fork & wheel combo.
I don't need wave rotors, but I do like some very serious brakes up front. Ive allways set up all my bikes with the grippiest pads and oversize (if available) rotors, and set them so 1-finger stoppies are doable, if wanted.
I figure some of my dirtbike setups could carry over to the street.
-Z


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber wheels
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 3:51 am 
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Location: Reconquista of California
This appears to be lost in translation regarding carbon wheels...like I thought there are no rims available,for a stock chassied RZ & they replied they will not build ones to spec @ a 18 x 4.5 or 17 x 4.5. Only wheels 5.0" -6.5" wide gor other applications.
They said the only wheelset they offer is the cool old school 70s style magnesium 3 spokes. ( CH3) in stock fitment ...only. The E-mail mentioned the original Dymag, went out of buisness, then was bought and reorganized a few years ago. Thus some practices may have changed.
But thats pretty cool that someone can buy a set of 18" retro wheels for a RZ!

No one was really specific on what they were building, I was just curious, as there are alot of folks/vintage racers who might need something close to original spec for aircooled RDs LCs & RZs.
Figured better to hear it from the horses mouth, never know if we dont ask.
The " hybrid"option is easy as 1, 2, 3, that was already mentioned above previously. I personally, wouldnt be intrested in CF for a RZ chassis, but many later model late 80s through mid 90s bikes, I'd certainlly consider a used set if I could score them. Although I never would consider carbon over the MAGTEKS or Techomagnesios on the current bikes, for me the magnesium rims look much better & I like gold or white wheels...lol.

Zombie, also if your doing a "Prilla" RS chassis or a RGV then you can probably get whatever you want as long as its a 17"x5" rear wheel, thats carbon, NOT magnesium. Personally I'd go for a RS chassis even though I cant stand the RS bodywork, if only for the almost bolt in cradle kits available for the RS. Your in the states...right?, Im thinking you will have better luck sourcing a RS 250 chassis, as I viewed far more RS250s here than RGVs.
Hopefully you go ahead with this idea, and be riding a bike that you enjoy.

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96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura Lucky Strike rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ/YZR track bike(project)
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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber wheels
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:09 pm 
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Location: Winterpeg, Canada
A buddy of mine who races doesn't like them. He has seen a few explode in minor crashes. And they are not allowed in moto GP. I like the light weight but the price and safety factor would be my biggest concern.

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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber wheels
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:59 pm 
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ok for a exotic track bike, but not practical for on the road with its potholes etc.

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She might not be pretty but she will always be a fun ride


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber wheels
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:05 am 
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Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 8:27 pm
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Location: Brisbane OZ
On the contrary, I've picked up many a crashed sports bike where the alloy wheel has caved in enough on the edge of a pothole, sufficient for instant and total loss of air.
Magnesium wheels I have seen caved in so much the dent jammed on the back of the caliper and flipped it end for end.

There may have been failures with early carbon wheels, also the "Race" version of BST's are lighter than the road versions. Obviously there are less layers of carbon mat.
When you see a race bike with a wheel failure you need to ask the question, how many accidents has it already endured.

BST road wheels have DOT/MOT approval, so they meet the same standards as all your factory OEM wheels.

I converted the BST rear 4.5" x 17" wheel meant for my RS250 (chain drive, twin sided swingarm) to use on my Moto Guzzi Bellagio/Cafe (shaft drive, single sided swingarm).
Initially BST refused to help claiming it would fail and their product would get bad publicity. I understood totally.
But when I suggested they could help me fail by not assisting, of they could help me succeed by supplying the info I needed, they obliged. :smt003

Initial ride was the Lions TT in 2014, flat out over one of the nastiest potholed roads in the border ranges. Its called the Lions road because it was built by, and to this day is still maintained by the Lions Club and public donations - no govt funding but it is still a public road.
At 8:30 in - is where I came past, followed by an NSR 250 which had a 30 second head start.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Epgc6jfCT18
It wasn't a race, just a closed 20k section of public road for us to enjoy. The police shut it down the next day. :smt019

Again, people who claim to have saved 1kg of wheel weight are amazed at the difference in handling and turn in, I saved 4.5kg off the front wheel/tyre/brake combo and 4.3kg off the rear. Back to back with a 675R Street Triple, my barge arsed cruiser turns the same.

Once you've had black, you never go back!

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Last edited by ghezzi on Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber wheels
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:28 am 
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After some research, it turns out carbon fiber wheels were completley legal and used by many Moto GP teams, Ducati,Honda and Yamaha factory and satellite teams.
Apparently reason they were banned, was to " reduce costs" in racing. And since Moto GP and WSBK are run and governed by the same organization, we wont be viewing them anywhere.
They banned the CF wings for 2017, Ducati protested stating they started the experiment, it proved beneficial then others "copied" them and data acquisition showed 100% that it is working as designed, then Honda and M Marquez started a campaign to have them banned for saftey reasons.

Ducati says that this us happening due to Ducatis proven success with them as they require it for their machine to handle they way it does this year, which is a advantage that the big 3 Japanese companies dont want them to have.
Saftey reasons were stated as excessive turbulace and danger of slicing wounds.. :smt027
Sounds like each side has valid points.

(Sounds pretty F-ing stupid regarding the wheels though) , Moto GP bikes are stated to cost between 1.5. -3 million dollars each...how much could a seasons wheels add to that ??? Makes you laugh.

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Banshee (Baja) race bike, Lonestar A-Arms, dual 9" L.E.Ds, FMF, Toomey,19cc domes, IMS tank, run flats.
96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura Lucky Strike rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ/YZR track bike(project)
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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber wheels
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:38 pm
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Location: Winterpeg, Canada
Questo vecchio rz wrote:
After some research, it turns out carbon fiber wheels were completley legal and used by many Moto GP teams, Ducati,Honda and Yamaha factory and satellite teams.
Apparently reason they were banned, was to " reduce costs" in racing. And since Moto GP and WSBK are run and governed by the same organization, we wont be viewing them anywhere.
They banned the CF wings for 2017, Ducati protested stating they started the experiment, it proved beneficial then others "copied" them and data acquisition showed 100% that it is working as designed, then Honda and M Marquez started a campaign to have them banned for saftey reasons.


Interesting, I did not know that. Do you happen to have a link? I'm sure not all carbon fiber wheels are made equal. Additives can increase brittleness, toughness, strength, etc.

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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber wheels
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 2:18 am
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Location: vancouver
Nephew Manages/runs(?) the Polygon Mountain Bike Team (#2 in the world.. alegedly :-).
They use CF wheels (rims actually). Several hundred $ Each (in quantity).. for a Bicycle !
Seems there is a Big difference in CF wheel quality.
Race Spec CF ones are another world of quality /precision than the ones sold to Posers.
That said their CF wheels shave only a V few ounces over their previous Titanium versions.
BUT and it's a big But.. their CF wheels rarely survive 2 races.
They are Brittle and crack splinter frighteningly easily.
Just the thing for riding to Starbucks :smt002


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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber wheels
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:27 am 
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Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 8:27 pm
Posts: 180
Location: Brisbane OZ
May I ask the question?
What F1 wheels are approved for use on a road car? None!
What serious race team would use wheels approved for road use? None!

Why? Coz to comply with safety regulations they end up too bloody heavy.
The reverse situations is, in racing they will make everything as light and as fast as possible, and accept there will be occasional failures.

I will state one more time for the dim witted, my BST Carbon Fibre wheels come with the same TUV/DOT approval as any wheel you can buy for your street legal bike, including your OEM wheels.

Ever seen products marked "For off road use only"? There's a reason for that. They don't meet govt safety standards. BST road wheels do.
BST race wheels don't comply with road safety standards. Hey, lets compare apples with apples, OK.

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 Post subject: Re: Carbon fiber wheels
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:44 pm
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I got a set of magnesium rims from Dymag made to fit my rz350 but had them made 17". Of all the things I have done this has made the greatest improvement in the bikes handling. The bonus is the greater selection of tires to pick from.

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85 RZ 350, Lumas gp pipes, 28 pwk's, penske shock, Metmachex swing arm, R1 brakes and rotors, V-force4, custom yokes from NK Racing,Dymag magnesium 17" rims,Airtech bodywork re-enforced with carbon fibre


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