R1 Front End Howto (Pictures)
Moderator: rztom
R1 Front End Howto (Pictures)
Hello,
Everyone on this board has been helping me out a lot, especially Smurph, so here's my chance to give a little something back.
Recently, I successfully completed my R1 front end on my RZ350 using the stock R1 stem with a stem spacer as Smurph has decribed else where.
Armed with a digital camera, I will show you most of the steps I took. Hopefully this will help you out and Smurph won't have to reply to our naive questions.
And if this does help you at all, drop me a line, so I know in the future to leave the images posted on the web. Lets get on with it!
I started off by ordering two ball bearing kits, I think the picture should be good enough to see all the info you need to order the same sets.
You need two kits because the R1 stem will need two 30mm (I think) ID bearings for the top and bottem of the stem. Each kit comes with
one 25mm and one 30mm bearing for the stock RZ stem. So in our case, we need to sets and the 25mm bearings are not used.
I've even labeled the bearing race, bearings and dust cover as I have never taken a stem apart before and was confused as to what was what.
Vocabulary is key. Speaking of vocabulary, when I mention "press", for this thread, that simply means gently tapping with a hammer and
a piece of wood, or pvc. Anyway, this is what you need from each kit.
You will need a 5mm spacer too. The old ball bearing race off the R1 stem can be used to make the spacer.
From Smurph's recommendation you are better to be on the short side of 5mm, ie 4.8 or 4.9mm.
First step is to press on the spacer, then one of the dust seals. Then a bearing. I my case, the bearing didn't easily go all the way down,
which is expected.
I used a 1 1/4 inch piece of PVC pipe which rested on the inner metal portion of the bearing. I think it is important that it does NOT rest
on the bearing housing itself which could damage the bearing. I gently tapped the PVC tube which pushed the bearing down to the
dust seal. You can throw the stem in the freezer to aid in the press process if you want.
Set the R1 stem aside for a minute and remove the existing ball bearing races from the RZ stem. They should look something like this:
and the bottem one will look like this:
You can use a piece of wood as a punch and hammer and drive them out of the stem, since they both have a lip to use as leverage.
For the top stock race, I would put the piece of wood insdie the stem from below and driveit upwards. And of course, for the bottem race,
I knocked it out from the top side of the stem.
Once you have the old races out press the new races in. Make sure you do not use too much force and damage or bind the race.
But equally important, make sure they are seated all the way, or they could come loose while riding.
This picture does a good job showing how the race should be seated snuggly agaist the inside of the stem.
Pardon for my lack of pictures for the rest of the project, but if you are this far, you're practically done. Grease the bearings.
Place the stem with the spacer, dust seal and greased bearing into the stem. Then place the top bearing and dust seal on and lock down with
the approrpiate R1 hardware. The necessary hardware can be found here:
http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.co ... YZFR1L.asp
After that, install the rest of the R1 front end and you are done!!!
Next up, will be an FZ600 swinger howto. Unless someone beats me to it (since I havn't done it yet, that would be fine by me!!)
Everyone on this board has been helping me out a lot, especially Smurph, so here's my chance to give a little something back.
Recently, I successfully completed my R1 front end on my RZ350 using the stock R1 stem with a stem spacer as Smurph has decribed else where.
Armed with a digital camera, I will show you most of the steps I took. Hopefully this will help you out and Smurph won't have to reply to our naive questions.
And if this does help you at all, drop me a line, so I know in the future to leave the images posted on the web. Lets get on with it!
I started off by ordering two ball bearing kits, I think the picture should be good enough to see all the info you need to order the same sets.
You need two kits because the R1 stem will need two 30mm (I think) ID bearings for the top and bottem of the stem. Each kit comes with
one 25mm and one 30mm bearing for the stock RZ stem. So in our case, we need to sets and the 25mm bearings are not used.
I've even labeled the bearing race, bearings and dust cover as I have never taken a stem apart before and was confused as to what was what.
Vocabulary is key. Speaking of vocabulary, when I mention "press", for this thread, that simply means gently tapping with a hammer and
a piece of wood, or pvc. Anyway, this is what you need from each kit.
You will need a 5mm spacer too. The old ball bearing race off the R1 stem can be used to make the spacer.
From Smurph's recommendation you are better to be on the short side of 5mm, ie 4.8 or 4.9mm.
First step is to press on the spacer, then one of the dust seals. Then a bearing. I my case, the bearing didn't easily go all the way down,
which is expected.
I used a 1 1/4 inch piece of PVC pipe which rested on the inner metal portion of the bearing. I think it is important that it does NOT rest
on the bearing housing itself which could damage the bearing. I gently tapped the PVC tube which pushed the bearing down to the
dust seal. You can throw the stem in the freezer to aid in the press process if you want.
Set the R1 stem aside for a minute and remove the existing ball bearing races from the RZ stem. They should look something like this:
and the bottem one will look like this:
You can use a piece of wood as a punch and hammer and drive them out of the stem, since they both have a lip to use as leverage.
For the top stock race, I would put the piece of wood insdie the stem from below and driveit upwards. And of course, for the bottem race,
I knocked it out from the top side of the stem.
Once you have the old races out press the new races in. Make sure you do not use too much force and damage or bind the race.
But equally important, make sure they are seated all the way, or they could come loose while riding.
This picture does a good job showing how the race should be seated snuggly agaist the inside of the stem.
Pardon for my lack of pictures for the rest of the project, but if you are this far, you're practically done. Grease the bearings.
Place the stem with the spacer, dust seal and greased bearing into the stem. Then place the top bearing and dust seal on and lock down with
the approrpiate R1 hardware. The necessary hardware can be found here:
http://houseofmotorcycles.bikebandit.co ... YZFR1L.asp
After that, install the rest of the R1 front end and you are done!!!
Next up, will be an FZ600 swinger howto. Unless someone beats me to it (since I havn't done it yet, that would be fine by me!!)
Jesse Walters
NESBA #013
2007 KTM 990 Adv. S
1972 Honda CB 750 K2
1985 Yamaha RZ350
NESBA #013
2007 KTM 990 Adv. S
1972 Honda CB 750 K2
1985 Yamaha RZ350
Nice post--don't plan on doing this conversion myself but very informative! Thanks for the effort.
One tip that I've found useful when installing tapered bearing kits is to grind a notch into the headstock so that if you ever have to remove the races there is a notch to get a tool into to tap it out. If you take a look at your pic showing how well the race is seated on the bottom, it also shows how difficult it is going to be to get it out if every needed!! Maybe Ruzty gave me that tip a while back??
One tip that I've found useful when installing tapered bearing kits is to grind a notch into the headstock so that if you ever have to remove the races there is a notch to get a tool into to tap it out. If you take a look at your pic showing how well the race is seated on the bottom, it also shows how difficult it is going to be to get it out if every needed!! Maybe Ruzty gave me that tip a while back??
Interesting, while I was pressing those into place, I was thinking just that! I hope I don't ever want to take them out! Good idea with the notch, that would make someones life a lot easier if they need to replace or remove the bearing race.
FirmBiz wrote:Nice post--don't plan on doing this conversion myself but very informative! Thanks for the effort.
One tip that I've found useful when installing tapered bearing kits is to grind a notch into the headstock so that if you ever have to remove the races there is a notch to get a tool into to tap it out. If you take a look at your pic showing how well the race is seated on the bottom, it also shows how difficult it is going to be to get it out if every needed!! Maybe Ruzty gave me that tip a while back??
Jesse Walters
NESBA #013
2007 KTM 990 Adv. S
1972 Honda CB 750 K2
1985 Yamaha RZ350
NESBA #013
2007 KTM 990 Adv. S
1972 Honda CB 750 K2
1985 Yamaha RZ350
hmmm,
Whats the cost of this conversion? Does the bike handle significantly better. My problem is my RZ really doesn't handle like i feel it should. I hopped on my buddies CBR600 the other day and was amazed I know that there is a lot newer technology but hell it was only a 95. My bike has tapered bearings in the front, steering dampner, and an aftermarket JMC swingarm. The swingarm is customized to match stock RZ ride height. Can't figure out what is damaging the handling. If it could be the front end maybe I'll try this conversion, but then again it could be the rear
moto
i spent $800.00 in parts , smurph made me a offer i couldnt refuse for a set of forks & tripple trees to start the conversion.its well worth it & you will gain confidence in the front end as the twichyness we got from the stockers stuff will be gone. now the frame flexing will have to be dealt with when hammering on the brakes for corner entry & the addition grip from the tires is sure to tax the chassis .
the end results should make for a much better bike although alot of people are doing this conversion nowadays driving prices higher .just as i got all the parts together for my conversion a complete radial front end minus the wheel went for $1,100 last month ,$200.00_ $300.00 for a rim & rotors .smurph got in on this when $500.00-$700.00 is all it would cost for the parts,bottom line prices have doubled in a year or so.i bought all my stuff off e bay & had to deal with only one seller backing out of a sale after i sent the funds . stick with higher feedback #,s & everthing should work out fine
i spent $800.00 in parts , smurph made me a offer i couldnt refuse for a set of forks & tripple trees to start the conversion.its well worth it & you will gain confidence in the front end as the twichyness we got from the stockers stuff will be gone. now the frame flexing will have to be dealt with when hammering on the brakes for corner entry & the addition grip from the tires is sure to tax the chassis .
the end results should make for a much better bike although alot of people are doing this conversion nowadays driving prices higher .just as i got all the parts together for my conversion a complete radial front end minus the wheel went for $1,100 last month ,$200.00_ $300.00 for a rim & rotors .smurph got in on this when $500.00-$700.00 is all it would cost for the parts,bottom line prices have doubled in a year or so.i bought all my stuff off e bay & had to deal with only one seller backing out of a sale after i sent the funds . stick with higher feedback #,s & everthing should work out fine
original owner of the roberts replica
How did the steering stops work out?
How did you mate the stock ignition to the R1 upper triple clamp?
Where the ZX7 took real muscle to turn, the SV feels like it is hardwired into my frontal cortex yet it is not twitchy at all, unlike the early 90's GSXR's which would wobble if you looked at them wrong.
Comparing my '81 RDLC to my 03 SV you can immediately see how the newer bike has much more front end bias with a much better for-aft weight distribution. The SV with its 75 HP takes effort to wheelie but the RD with its 35 HP is easy to wheelie because all the weight is over the back wheel.
Also the 1981 era forks were like .................. spaghetti compared to the newer items. At 130+ kms/hr I can watch the front forks vibrating vigorously on the RD. It takes real effort to get the SV forks to flex.
And don't even get me started on brakes. :roll:
How did you mate the stock ignition to the R1 upper triple clamp?
A decade is HUGE with respect to bike technology. I had a '91 ZX7, which was one of the top supersport bikes back in its day. Compared to my 03 SV650, which is marketed as an entry level bike, the ZX7 felt heavy, rough and old.My problem is my RZ really doesn't handle like i feel it should. I hopped on my buddies CBR600 the other day and was amazed I know that there is a lot newer technology but hell it was only a 95.
Where the ZX7 took real muscle to turn, the SV feels like it is hardwired into my frontal cortex yet it is not twitchy at all, unlike the early 90's GSXR's which would wobble if you looked at them wrong.
Comparing my '81 RDLC to my 03 SV you can immediately see how the newer bike has much more front end bias with a much better for-aft weight distribution. The SV with its 75 HP takes effort to wheelie but the RD with its 35 HP is easy to wheelie because all the weight is over the back wheel.
Also the 1981 era forks were like .................. spaghetti compared to the newer items. At 130+ kms/hr I can watch the front forks vibrating vigorously on the RD. It takes real effort to get the SV forks to flex.
And don't even get me started on brakes. :roll:
'81 RD350LC
I've put Race Tech cartridge emulators in my forks (and rebuilt them) and redone the rear suspension with new bushings and an R6 shock and it just rails around corners. Hard parts touch the ground before the suspension gives up and I have yet to have a wobble or shake at any speed. The front brakes are OK with good pads and braided lines (rebuilding the calipers helped too), but not as instant/effortless as the newer radial stuff.
- This old RZ
- Posts: 1773
- Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:04 am
- Location: So.Cal
I did the same thing, have a complete RC-45 usd front end complete top to bottom already to bolt on, then no sooner than I had it finished I got a entire 636 frontend minus wheel for only $500.00, I got in my car and drove to San Fransico from Los Angeles picked it up and came back non stop. I still have to locate a 5-6 spoke 636 wheel and see if I have any brake caliper differances due to the 3 spoke vs the 5-6 spoke on the next year. If I cant do a spoke set up to match the NSR rear Ill get rid of it as I want them to match.
Hey Jesse,
why do you say it is better to make the R1 stem spacer 4.8 or 4.9mm?
Is it so the nut on the top triple fits flush with the steering stem?
Also, what are those clipon bars on your bike, they dont look like R1 bars?
Freddie19
why do you say it is better to make the R1 stem spacer 4.8 or 4.9mm?
Is it so the nut on the top triple fits flush with the steering stem?
Also, what are those clipon bars on your bike, they dont look like R1 bars?
Freddie19
Jack the Ripper is back!
Faster than the wind and quicker than a thief in the night!
1984 Yamaha RD350 LC2
1985 Yamaha RZ350 Kenny Roberts
1981 Honda CB900FB
1983 Ford Escort RS1600i
Faster than the wind and quicker than a thief in the night!
1984 Yamaha RD350 LC2
1985 Yamaha RZ350 Kenny Roberts
1981 Honda CB900FB
1983 Ford Escort RS1600i
- RZResurection
- Posts: 1233
- Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:51 pm
I have a question for those of you who have worked with the R1 fork retrofit.
I have been browsing ebay for a set of front calipers. I have been also looking for an R6 rear caliper and hanger that I want to fit to my RZ as well.
I've noticed that when I did the R6 search, it brought up some R1 front calipers because the seller said that certain years were interchangable R1 & R6 front calipers? I've found this from a few sellers now, but the years that they claimed were interchangeable was different from seller to seller?? WTF.
I would ask my local bike shop, but they are really good a looking up parts and not so great at letting me know what is interchangeable.
Any help here?
I have been browsing ebay for a set of front calipers. I have been also looking for an R6 rear caliper and hanger that I want to fit to my RZ as well.
I've noticed that when I did the R6 search, it brought up some R1 front calipers because the seller said that certain years were interchangable R1 & R6 front calipers? I've found this from a few sellers now, but the years that they claimed were interchangeable was different from seller to seller?? WTF.
I would ask my local bike shop, but they are really good a looking up parts and not so great at letting me know what is interchangeable.
Any help here?
Jeff
Trying to build a bike that's as fast as my memories
87 Canadian 1WV
OEM Pipes
Gutted Airbox
VF4 Reeds
Milled Head (0.020")
Main 240
Pilot 27.5
02 R1 Front End
R6 Shock and Rims (180 Rear Tire)
84 FJ1100 Swingarm
Trying to build a bike that's as fast as my memories
87 Canadian 1WV
OEM Pipes
Gutted Airbox
VF4 Reeds
Milled Head (0.020")
Main 240
Pilot 27.5
02 R1 Front End
R6 Shock and Rims (180 Rear Tire)
84 FJ1100 Swingarm
99-04 R6 brakes fit the 98-03 R1 forks. But it is best to get the brakes that are for your year R1 forks,
as the most likely come with the lines. I'm quite sure the R6 lines will not interchange very well.
98-01 R1 brakes have the longest lines of all the R1 brakes and can work with 02-03 forks. But the
brake lines will be tight if they are 02-03 brakes on a 98-01 fork.
02-03 R1 brakes have the gold pot plugs and also have the aluminum pistons where the 98-01 brakes
have steel pistons and blue plugs. Both brakes function the same. The 02-03 are just lighter by a few ounces.
Steve
as the most likely come with the lines. I'm quite sure the R6 lines will not interchange very well.
98-01 R1 brakes have the longest lines of all the R1 brakes and can work with 02-03 forks. But the
brake lines will be tight if they are 02-03 brakes on a 98-01 fork.
02-03 R1 brakes have the gold pot plugs and also have the aluminum pistons where the 98-01 brakes
have steel pistons and blue plugs. Both brakes function the same. The 02-03 are just lighter by a few ounces.
Steve
Last edited by smurph on Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fuel Injected RZ350
- RZResurection
- Posts: 1233
- Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:51 pm
Thanks Smurf!
Great information, you also answered my next few questions.
Very much appreciated. :D
Great information, you also answered my next few questions.
Very much appreciated. :D
Jeff
Trying to build a bike that's as fast as my memories
87 Canadian 1WV
OEM Pipes
Gutted Airbox
VF4 Reeds
Milled Head (0.020")
Main 240
Pilot 27.5
02 R1 Front End
R6 Shock and Rims (180 Rear Tire)
84 FJ1100 Swingarm
Trying to build a bike that's as fast as my memories
87 Canadian 1WV
OEM Pipes
Gutted Airbox
VF4 Reeds
Milled Head (0.020")
Main 240
Pilot 27.5
02 R1 Front End
R6 Shock and Rims (180 Rear Tire)
84 FJ1100 Swingarm
The RZ handles like a dream with with R1 forks. 98-01 R1 forks have a spring rate of .750 kg/mm. Race-Tech suggests .710 kg/mm for a "race" spring rate and a 170 lb. rider (including gear). So if you weigh 170 lbs. without gear, the .750 hg/mm feels quite comfortable. Now, it does not feel the same as the spongy/springy/mushy ride that the original .450 kg/mm spring rate of the original RZ forks, so the change does feel quite drastic at first. The more I ride mine, the more I like it. But I can see where some might not like them because the bike no longer "feels" like an RZ.
One thing you notice right from the start with R1 forks is increased ridgidity. It wasn't too hard to get the original forks to flex. Even with my telifix fork brace, I could feel the front end flex when pushed. This sensation is now totally gone. Now you can feel the frame flex! With the R1 forks, the weak link is no longer the front end.
The next thing you notice is what real brakes feel like. With the comparitively huge rotors, modern calipers, and stiffness to to control higher braking forces, the R1 forks offer a completely wonderful braking experience. The word I would use to describe it is "awesome".
And get this... Even though the 41mm stantion tubes on the 98-01 R1 forks are complete and utter overkill for the RZ350, the whole setup weighs less than the original forks.
All that being said, if you are an aggressive rider, you will like the R1 forks. If you just toodle around on rough city streets, you will most likely find them uncomfortable and you may need to get them re-sprung to about .650 kg/mm.
Steve
One thing you notice right from the start with R1 forks is increased ridgidity. It wasn't too hard to get the original forks to flex. Even with my telifix fork brace, I could feel the front end flex when pushed. This sensation is now totally gone. Now you can feel the frame flex! With the R1 forks, the weak link is no longer the front end.
The next thing you notice is what real brakes feel like. With the comparitively huge rotors, modern calipers, and stiffness to to control higher braking forces, the R1 forks offer a completely wonderful braking experience. The word I would use to describe it is "awesome".
And get this... Even though the 41mm stantion tubes on the 98-01 R1 forks are complete and utter overkill for the RZ350, the whole setup weighs less than the original forks.
All that being said, if you are an aggressive rider, you will like the R1 forks. If you just toodle around on rough city streets, you will most likely find them uncomfortable and you may need to get them re-sprung to about .650 kg/mm.
Steve
Fuel Injected RZ350