I'M HAVING PROBLEMS INSTALLING CARTRIDE EMULATORS HELP!

[StaytonII]

SO I READ (ON HERE) THAT THE CARTRIDGE EMULATORS ON THE MIKE'S XS WEBSITE ARE THE SAME AS THE ONE'S FOR AN RZ. I BOUGHT A SET AND STARTED INSTALLING THEM, BUT HAVE RUN INTO PROBLEMS. FIRST OFF, I FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS THAT CAME WITH THEM FOR AN XS650. THEN I READ ON Do I braze up the rebound holes? It doesn't mention removing the inner dampening rod at all or brazing the rebound holes! any help anybody????

[tobster]

I'm sure as you know the instructions for installing the RaceTech items are far more complicated than just dropping the emulators in.
Here are their instructions for modifying the damper rod

RZ350 DAMPING ROD MODIFICATION

TOOLS REQUIRED (In addition to those required for standard installation): Brazing Equipment, Fine Flat File, Drill Motor and 5/64" (2.0 mm) Drill Bit, 1/4" Drift (flat end punch) and a Hammer.

CAUTION: THIS MODIFICATION REQUIRES BRAZING AND CAREFUL FILEING. INSTALLATION SHOULD BE PERFORMED BY A QUALIFIED MECHANIC. IF YOU ARE UNFAMILIAR WITH THIS PROCEDURE, STOP! CALL RACE TECH OR A QUALIFIED MECHANIC.

The RZ has a unique "twin tube" damping rod that must be modified for proper damping. The inner tube must be removed and the stock rebound feed holes must be brazed and re-drilled.

1 Remove the damping rods from the forks.
2 Clamp the damping rod lengthwise in a vise with soft jaws to protect the rod. The end of the inner tube is located approximately 38 mm (1 1/2") from the bottom end of the tube. Insert a 6 mm (1/4") drift into the bottom of the damping rod. Angle it to the side and tap out the inner tube (fig 1). Discard the inner tube.
3 There are four rebound feed holes stock. Two large holes located at the top of the rod and two small holes located further down the rod. Braze all four stock rebound feed holes shut. Completely file the excess braze off flush with the damping rod surface. Be careful not to remove steel from the damping rod itself as this will affect the rebound damping.
4 Drill one new 2 mm (5/64") rebound hole 32 mm (1 1/4") from the bottom of the head of the damping rod. It should be at the same height as the top original rebound hole. Deburr the hole inside and out.
5 Complete the installation following the standard instructions by drilling new compression holes in the bottom of the damping rod, setting the oil level to 160 mm with US-2 (10wt) fluid.


If you want the complete instructions (with a couple of drawings) then just send me a pm and I'll email you them

[RuZty]

The valves might be the same, but the application isn't. What tobster has posted is the same as what RaceTech supplied with the ones I bought years ago, so go with that.

[Bare]

SO I READ (ON HERE) THAT THE CARTRIDGE EMULATORS ON THE MIKE'S XS WEBSITE ARE THE SAME AS THE ONE'S FOR AN RZ. I BOUGHT A SET AND STARTED INSTALLING THEM, BUT HAVE RUN INTO PROBLEMS. FIRST OFF, I FOLLOWED THE INSTRUCTIONS THAT CAME WITH THEM FOR AN XS650. THEN I READ ON Do I braze up the rebound holes? It doesn't mention removing the inner dampening rod at all or brazing the rebound holes! any help anybody????

There are No instructions for brazing up the Teeny rebound holes as it's not required. Leave 'em Alone. Racetechs were developed Years! ago the Mikes' / YSS "clones" are only a few years old.. Knowledge has improved.
What You DO need to do is ensure that the Bottom of the Em Valve rests fully onto the spring perch on the Damper rod. This will involve a bit of either Lathe work on the rod end or some time with a wee Grinder to make a bit of room ..inside.. the rod end so the valve can seat cleanly. You also Must Drill the req'd 6? (6mm (?) holes at the bottom of the Rod spaced so as to not reduce the structural strength of the tube. there Should?? be a spacing and hole size diagram in the instructions .
These holes unlike the rebound holes ARE required as they remove ALL previous compression damping function from the damper rod.. as the Em Valve 's adjustable spring loaded diaphragm.. Now.. controls Compression damping.
Rebound damping on Emulator valves .. at least the old style ones that fit our Rz's ONLY effect compression damping.
Rebound control is STILL done by Oil viscosity
Latest Version Em valves have 2!! diaphragms.. one for Comp And One for rebound.. Not ours
My opinion is that Comp dampening is of lesser importance than rebound.. But one takes what gains one can reasonably get. Which is imo a good reason to use the Mike's Valves , because at $50 that's pretty well what the improvement is worth.. in real life .

[L.B]

Omg....this is doing my head in....read so many posts on this subject.
Once & for all, who is right & who's amiss. Braze & redrill or just drill?
Can any one please offer proven results, experience on which is the right way to do these damn damper rods?
In my case I'm using mikes em's & racetech springs.
Tia.

[JonW]

Jason, I agree, there is a lot of info on this conversion out there, but little of it seems to be follow along the same lines. Its a minefield of different approaches sadly, not helped as some follow the old racetech instructions and some the MikesXS version, but arent the XS forks different to the RZ? I wouldnt know, ive never owned an XS...

I would also love someone to give us a definitive of what we should really do. Including, what springs we should run with these, OEM, Aftermarket, progressive or not...

Bare, you sound like youre talking sense here using a more modern approach, and from what you say Im guessing you have done a few of these conversions? is that right? have you tried the old and new ways and recommend the new way as it's a way better approach?

As you know, the only bit Ive always struggled with from what you say about these ems, is this:

My opinion is that Comp dampening is of lesser importance than rebound.. But one takes what gains one can reasonably get. Which is imo a good reason to use the Mike's Valves , because at $50 that's pretty well what the improvement is worth.. in real life .

I've just never really understood what that means but I think you explain it better this time perhaps...? My issue is that while it costs $50 to buy the valves, what about the hours of work stripping, brazing, filing, drilling, building up, new springs, new oil, and then testing? it's really not a $50 job, no way...

So... what does 'it's worth $50' mean? Is it, 'I have $50 in my paypal account and time on my hands and the skills to do it, so its worth doing as it's not a bad thing at all as its better than standard, ie good bang for buck', or 'meh, its like a band aid fix on spindly old fashioned suspension, you should really upgrade/pay more for something better you cheapskates! But, if you must be cheap then this is an ok upgrade, but that's really about it and my advice is to think harder and pay more'...????

I think its the former, and I think you mean it's worth doing. But saying its worth $50 (ie a 50 dollar improvement), doesnt mean much to me as Id like to know if it is a worthy upgrade for the $50 + hassle to do... So what is it bare?

[rbenz]

I've been wondering about doing this as well. Brazing and drilling VS just drilling more holes? Also considering how stiff straight rate springs would be for a street bike. Would progressive springs with spacers and preload adjuster caps accomplish the same thing?

[silverstrom]

More trouble than it's worth. I have progressive springs, heavier oil, spacers, and preload adjusters and it works fine for me, but my expectations might be a bit lower than most and I'm street only. Emulators look good, but the cost and work involved makes no sense to me. If you want better forks, use better forks.

[Bare]

Why? overcomplicate things.
The Mike's Valves AND the YSS ones Do Not require Brazing up holes in their instruction sets.. Clear enough info?
Concidence ??
Mine have been in and working For 3 years 'Jes Fine' thanx... without brazed up holes.
Only adding 3 large holes to the damper rod base.. as per the Instructions.
Also, I did Not and will Not fit progressive springs either.
IMO.. I'll file that will running half tire pressures

[mboddy]

You should braize the damper rod holes as per the RaceTech instructions.
The size rebound hole that they recommend is good for 10wt oil. I use a smaller hole and 7.5wt.
I have won many race championships and titles with the forks set up this way.
Never any patter even around Corporate Hill at Eastern Creek.
All my fellow racers who have tried them say my setup is the best they have tried.

[Evans Ward]

The instructions w/ MikesXS unit are written for an XS650. When we did mine, we ignored the XS instructions and followed the RT ones.