2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

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JonW
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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#346 Post by JonW » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:16 pm

Really interesting on the power feed, I handt considered that...

The tach stuff you mention was much the same when I plumbed in the EGTs on my 421. The LC tacho and the EGT digital tacho dont match. Its not 1000 revs out, but its not the same. The old analogue needle drive system sucks as it gets old I reckon...

The low fuel 'count up' was one of the things I really liked about the R1 dash, using it for oil would be supercool.
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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#347 Post by RuZty » Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:47 am

JonW wrote: The LC tacho and the EGT digital tacho dont match. Its not 1000 revs out, but its not the same. The old analogue needle drive system sucks as it gets old I reckon...

The low fuel 'count up' was one of the things I really liked about the R1 dash, using it for oil would be supercool.
What does the EGT tach read off? Is it higher than the stock one? I was getting about 20% higher on the R1 tach.

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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#348 Post by RuZty » Fri Sep 23, 2016 1:02 am

In an attempt to get the oil trip odometer working I determined that the R1 fuel sender (actually just a low level switch) consists of a NTC thermistor (resistance decreases as it heats up). It sits in gas and is thus kept cool, with over 1k ohm to keep the light off. Once the level drops and it's in air it gets warmer and the resistance drops below 300 ohm and the light comes on. The cheap one I bought on eBay might have been a bit sketchy, but I learned that if you test them on 12V with no upstream resistor they smell bad in about 5 seconds and then the smoke gets out. I have taken apart an oil sender and rewiring it as just on/off will allow me to use a SPDT relay to switch resistance values, or I might splurge on a new sender from Yamaha.

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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#349 Post by JonW » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:05 am

nope its not 20%, but its more than the analogue. The EGT is a Koso so reads off the white wires and applies a factor to it, its something crazy so not useful in this instance, plus its a sense not using the wires... a very different setup.
80 XT500 Supermoto!
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82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#350 Post by RuZty » Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:37 pm

Okay, I think I am ready to call this a wrap. I desoldered the fuel and oil LED's from the PCB and used a small drill bit (by hand) to enlarge the holes for the oil LED so I could connect it to the fuel LED contacts. The R1 fuel sender is a small vented container with a NTC thermistor in it, as the fuel drops it stops being cooled and its resistance goes down. This drops the voltage from the gauges on the sensor wire from around 10.8 volts to below 8.6, which turns on the light. It works in oil just as well as gas. When I was experimenting with this I had gas in the jar, and after watching the voltage drop to 4.7 volts I stuck it back in the gas and heard a sizzling sound and a puff of vapour came up from the sensor. :smt103 . At his point I switched to oil.
The sender in the pics is actually from a VTR1000, the same component appears in numerous Japanese senders and is likely supplied to them all by the same supplier. I just need to rig this into a spare RZ oil level sender at a suitable height and it's good to go. You could probably rig something up by wiring extra resistors into the stock sender driving a relay but I thought this was cleaner.
I just need to calculate how far I can go to empty once the light comes on.

LED rewiring;
Image

The oil light glows red about 30 seconds after the sensor is uncovered and it starts the separate trip odometer. I deemed making the LCD read 'O' instead of 'F' to be beyond the scope of this project.
Image


I currently have a Zeel PV controller on the bike and remembered that the programmer has a tach function. I hooked it up along with the R1 tach running off the W/R pickup coil lead and they were very close. They were also about 12% higher than the stock electronic RZ tach when holding a steady throttle. I took it for a ride with the R1 hacked into place and it responded smooth across the range.
I also tried the HEI mod to drive the tach since I had one kicking around but the bike would start and idle but not take any throttle at all with it in place. I checked the wiring several times and it was as per instructions so I tried it without and it worked fine.
Now I just need to get the right connectors and make the whole thing permanent.

Kudos again to smurph for pioneering this in the first place.
Last edited by RuZty on Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#351 Post by JonW » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:05 pm

wonderful info! Thanks Ruz.
80 XT500 Supermoto!
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82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#352 Post by RuZty » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:34 pm

More math before bed, I measured the rolling radius of my rear tire and multiplied it through the gearing to get 5370 rpm @ 100kph in top gear.
The RZ tach was reading around 5000, while the R1 was reading about 5600. I am assuming that the RZ speedo is fairly accurate, my last conversation with the local constabulary bears that out. [smilie=busted_cop[1].gif]

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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#353 Post by JonW » Wed Oct 05, 2016 11:45 pm

interesting... most will say that the RZ tach is pretty average at best. tape your phone with GPS digital speed reading on it to the bar perhaps?
80 XT500 Supermoto!
81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid

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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#354 Post by RuZty » Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:04 pm

I used your suggestion with the phone, tried 2 different apps for GPS speed and found a good one called Pado that also records your track and all motion and elevation change. The stock RZ speedo is reading 2-3% high, which is pretty damn close.
I finished the oil sender;

Image

A standard one is there for comparison as are the contacts, float and tube from the one I gutted.

I tested it mounted in the tank and the light/trip meter comes on with 215cc of oil left, which will get me about 100km. This is close to the level the stock sender turns the standard oil light on at.

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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#355 Post by JonW » Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:23 am

Thats great news, well done!

The oil sender is genius!
80 XT500 Supermoto!
81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid

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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#356 Post by RuZty » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:55 pm

Thanks Jon, I am in the fortunate position to spend way too much time on stuff like this.

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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#357 Post by JonW » Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:20 pm

haha, yeah these days i seem to have less n less time :/ I should get you to make me one of these, might mean i use my dash sooner lol. In fact maybe make a few and sell em, Ive a bunch of spare senders... ;) :D
80 XT500 Supermoto!
81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid

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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#358 Post by hondaror » Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:17 am

I'm enjoying this read. Crazy good work Russ!
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RuZty
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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#359 Post by RuZty » Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:07 pm

Thanks Rory. I might have a simpler solution, but the parts are backordered.

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Re: 2001 R1 Speedometer HOWTO

#360 Post by RuZty » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:22 pm

After waiting 2 months for backordered parts here is the simpler solution;

Image

This is a 'reserve sensor' from a '99-2000 CBR600, part number on the bag. It is 4mm shorter than the one I made which will make the light come on 5-10 km sooner (no biggie). The thread is M18x1.5 and the hole in the RZ oil tank is 20mm ID. Easy solution is to wrap some self vulcanizing rubber tape (electrical splicing tape) around the threads for a tight fit, with a lathe you could get fancier. Bonding an M18 threaded neck on the oil tank would be a slick alternative, and this sensor would work well with a custom oil tank, which I might do on my hybrid.

NOTE: as mentioned previously the R1 speedo puts a resistor in line with this sensor. If you put 12 volts directly across it you will get a puff of smoke in about 10 seconds.
Last edited by RuZty on Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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