RZ/RD 350 & Misc. 2-Stroke Tech BBS

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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:15 pm 
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Location: Btfd,ONT, Can
The previous owner did say that when he had the bike running he went for a ride and found it wasnt charging. So he took it home and parked it and never got around to fixing it.
I did check the kill switch, it is working. One end is plugged into a blk/wht wire. The other end is plugged into a ground connector that the headlights are connected to.


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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:32 am 
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Location: Btfd,ONT, Can
The cdi box is a 29K-50..


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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:53 am 
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Yeah, most 85s don't have that CDI, but some did... bad luck.

Thought that was isolated to US... You sure its an 85?

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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:26 am 
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silverstrom wrote:
nokturnal wrote:
silverstrom wrote:

If it's an 85 bike (1AG) it should have a 52Y-50 CDI. They are known to be reliable, but do fail occasionally. The 52Y-50 will give better performance than the 1UA CDI. The ignition curve on the 52Y-50 is simply better.

If it is defective, get another 52Y-50 if you go the stock route rather than the Zeel.


Do you think this would be noticeable? I don't think my butt-dyno would be able to tell. I do hate soldering though...


I restored an 85 for someone and rebuilt the engine. I rode that bike on my test circuit here (you know what my test circuit is like just outside my property) and it went like a scalded cat. I rode my 1UA after that and the 52Y CDI is indeed a better performer. Not at the very top of the rev range, but in the useful range it is a noticeable difference. I was surprised. I had previously read, perhaps in Martin's RD350 tuning manual, that the 52Y CDI was the better CDI to use, but not having an 85 of my own wasn't able to test that theory. I was genuinely surprised by the result. The 85 did perform extremely well and beyond my expectations. The difference was easily noticeable for me, but having the bikes here to make the comparison helps.

If I was replacing a CDI on a full stock bike I'd get a stock CDI, but not if the bike was an 83 or 84. The 31K CDI is shite. For an 85 or 86+ I'd stay with the stock 52Y or 1UA CDI. If the bike was modified with pipes, cylinders, reeds, and more then I'd go with the Zeeltronic or another option. That way you could also get powervalve control and tune properly. It really depends on what you are trying to achieve.

52Y CDIs are available https://www.ebay.de/itm/Yamaha-RD-350-Y ... SwLlJa3ua0

I will say though, be sure it is the CDI that has failed and find out why. 52Y failures are not common and if the failure is caused by a defective regulator-rectifier you'll kill the new CDI as soon as you start the bike and push out high voltage. If you aren't sure, replace the reg-rec as well.


I have found a lot of variations bike to bike, OEM wise.

I had an 83 (which I replaced the CDI with a 1UA unit) which was one of the, if not the top, fastest standard RZs I've owned. Engine was not fresh, and it was still running the stock CIGAR pipes. It was hands down faster then my piped and rebuilt 89. I remember hearing the 1UA CDI actually signs off earlier... I have never found a problem revving them out though...

I have a feeling that the porting/casting/squish variances play a part here as well.

You probably did a good job, working your magic on that 85 engine...

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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:57 am 
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Location: Btfd,ONT, Can
Yes its an 85, well atleast the frame is. Gonna run engine serial to see if it belongs in an 85 frame. The guy i bought it from is a friend, he worked in bike shops. So it could be many different years of stuff.
I just want it to run well. Im likely to only do 300 to 500km a yr. It does have a nice set of Dencos on it.


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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:16 am 
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Denco! I don't believe I have ever seen a set on an RZ. Post some pics one of these days.

If you do get a 1UA CDI, you just need to swap the plugs off the 29K and swap the red and green wire. (pretty sure... the info is on here somewhere...)

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=14071&p=141855&hilit=stator+swap#p141855

Better check the stator model too...

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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:41 pm 
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Ya im not looking for max power or anything like that. But ive found a few used cdi boxes and they are asking 300 to 400. I can get the zeel for 239US which works out to about 300 and its new and bypasses the stator and stock pv controls, correct?


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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:13 pm 
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yowzah... the going rate used to be around 100CAD

The zeel unit, if you buy the right one, will act as a CDI and YPVS unit in one unit. Not sure how it would bypass the stator though...

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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:23 pm 
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I thought i read that it bypasses the stator output and uses the 12v feed from the battery


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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:46 pm 
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Maybe. I haven't installed a zeel in about 6 years.

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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:30 pm 
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Get the zeel, sell your ypvs box to recoup $50-$75. There are 2 wires which need to be reversed for the cdi to work with a different stator. It was a huge pain to discover but MK's diagram was very helpful. If bike has never run check that


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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:59 pm 
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Location: Btfd,ONT, Can
Ya im kinda leaning that way. If im gonna spend 300 on a used box then might as well get the new box with a warranty for the same price.
The flywheel is stamped 29L-50. Is that correct for an 85?
I tried adding a pic of the dencos but it says file is too big


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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 2:50 am 
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AMDshaner wrote:
Yes its an 85, well atleast the frame is. Gonna run engine serial to see if it belongs in an 85 frame. The guy i bought it from is a friend, he worked in bike shops. So it could be many different years of stuff.
I just want it to run well. Im likely to only do 300 to 500km a yr. It does have a nice set of Dencos on it.


The engine number should be a 1AG if it's an 85 and the number should match the frame if it's original.

Mixing electrical components only works if it's done properly. Until you sort out what you have and why it doesn't work I wouldn't rush out to buy a Zeeltronic. So far you have a 1AG 1985 frame with a 1983/84 CDI and a 1983/84 flywheel. You need to know which stator you have, so that should be next. 83/84 will have one large coil with a thin one on both sides of that. 1985 stator will have 2 large coils. 86 will as well, but the difference is obvious when you know what to look for. The stator, CDI, flywheel combination has to be right or you'll never get spark. I've done the swaps and some are easy while others are not.

There are 3 different powervalve controllers, so you might as well see what you have there while you're at it.

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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:36 am 
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From "that guy" who wrote the stator essay:

How about stop guessing and try a systematic search instead?
Measure resistance of the stator red/green/brown against each other. Post the values
Measure white/red against white/green. Post the values.
You mentioned the 29L rotor. Please post a pic of the stator to identify which one was used (3 types existing).
You mentioned that you have the 29K CDI. This would fit sone combinations of stator/rotor if not defective.

Discussing about differences of stock CDI a against b is pretty pointless, when you can get a fully programmable unit at lower costs.

My advice is still getting a DC CDI. This avoids any issues with either the stock CDI, PV unit and the stators source coils AND adds performance.
Prerequisite: 12V part and pick up are functional (white against white shows around 0.6 Ohm, white/red against white/green shows an appropriate value)

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 Post subject: Re: No Spark 85 rz350
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 10:04 am 
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Location: Btfd,ONT, Can
The engine is 33E-010151


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