No Spark 85 rz350

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AMDshaner
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No Spark 85 rz350

#1 Post by AMDshaner » Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:46 pm

Hi all. New here, not new to bikes as i have had many. Just picked up an 85 rz350. Was told it was running, just needed a battery. Not the case at all, put in battery and have no spark.
Went through the troubleshooting in the manual.
Charge coil. Ok
Pickup coil. Ok
Ignition coil. Ok
Last test is cdi faulty. Replace.

I picked up new plugs just to be sure. Dont want to buy a new cdi and find i just overlooked something obvious.
Did i miss something? Do the cdi boxes fail regularly?

Guy i bought it from said it was running 5 years ago after he rebuilt everything, engine-brakes, new tires etc etc.
Ive checked most of the wiring, all lights work.

Looking at a Zeeltronic to replace the cdi if thats what i need.

Thanks for any help,
Shane

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OldTZracer
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Re: No Spark 85 rz350

#2 Post by OldTZracer » Mon Sep 03, 2018 12:57 am

Welcome to the forum. Don't forget to add a location to your profile...

Which market spec is your '85?
Did you confirm you are getting power through the ignition & kill switches?
"...its a 2-stroke ya twit - Its supposed to smoke..."

evan_calgary
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Re: No Spark 85 rz350

#3 Post by evan_calgary » Mon Sep 03, 2018 2:49 am

Shane,

They do Fail on occasion but not a known fault. If you end up at that point go for the zeel. BUy direct from Europe to save some money over the US suppliers. Depending on where you are at maybe someone has a spare you can borrow to test?

AMDshaner
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Re: No Spark 85 rz350

#4 Post by AMDshaner » Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:14 am

Thanks for the replies.. Im not sure which exact model i have. How do i figure that out? I have power everywhere, lights all work etc. The power valve servo cycles when i turn the key on also.
I thought the kill switch was just a ground to shut the bike down. If its supposed to have power then that could be the issue..
The kill switch is hooked to a black ground wire( headlights are grounded here also)
Other leg of kill switch goes to a short black with white stripe wire. Should the blk/ wht wire have 12v?
A friend of mine owned a bike shop, he has a buddy that still works in a local shop here and has some RZ stuff for sale. He has a cdi box but the plugs are different than what i have. Would it still be possible to test with this other cdi box just to confirm?
If the cdi is bad, i plan to get the Zeel box, was looking on economy cycle. They are 239.

Thanks again for the help..
Shane

RuZty
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Re: No Spark 85 rz350

#5 Post by RuZty » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:55 pm

Don't forget the sidestand switch and control unit kills the CDI if there is no ground through the neutral switch, might be worth checking.

AMDshaner
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Re: No Spark 85 rz350

#6 Post by AMDshaner » Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:52 am

Hey, now we might be getting somewhere. It doesnt have a side stand switch. I found a 2 wire connector behind the battery box with a jumper wire..
Will have to look at that closer..

Thanks
Shane

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nokturnal
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Re: No Spark 85 rz350

#7 Post by nokturnal » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:26 am

29k CDIs are known to fail.

If all tests fine you can try hose clamping a piece of dowel to the CDI box (!!!) to prove that’s the issue.

This has happened to me. When I leaned on the CDI with a lot of force I would get spark.

Apparently the epoxy in this CDI will shrink and create poor connections on the board.
:smt017

AMDshaner
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Re: No Spark 85 rz350

#8 Post by AMDshaner » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:30 am

Ok cool, thanks for the tip. Alot cheaper than buying a used cdi or the zeel on a hunch..
I will try that too!
Shane

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nokturnal
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Re: No Spark 85 rz350

#9 Post by nokturnal » Tue Sep 04, 2018 3:53 pm

If you buy a used RZ CDI to replace it, it's better to buy a 1UA, its an easier wiring swap.
:smt017

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Re: No Spark 85 rz350

#10 Post by silverstrom » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:34 pm

nokturnal wrote:29k CDIs are known to fail.

If all tests fine you can try hose clamping a piece of dowel to the CDI box (!!!) to prove that’s the issue.

This has happened to me. When I leaned on the CDI with a lot of force I would get spark.

Apparently the epoxy in this CDI will shrink and create poor connections on the board.
If it's an 85 bike (1AG) it should have a 52Y-50 CDI. They are known to be reliable, but do fail occasionally. The 52Y-50 will give better performance than the 1UA CDI. The ignition curve on the 52Y-50 is simply better.

If it is defective, get another 52Y-50 if you go the stock route rather than the Zeel.

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Re: No Spark 85 rz350

#11 Post by silverstrom » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:41 pm

AMDshaner wrote:Hey, now we might be getting somewhere. It doesnt have a side stand switch. I found a 2 wire connector behind the battery box with a jumper wire..
Will have to look at that closer..

Thanks
Shane
The jumper is required when you remove the switch. Verify that the jumper is making good contact and isn't corroded.

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Re: No Spark 85 rz350

#12 Post by MK » Tue Sep 04, 2018 4:52 pm

Considering that a programmable CDI adds more HP than some decent pipes AND cures any stator/CDI related issues it perfectly makes sense to endlessly try the old crap.
Bye
Martin

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Re: No Spark 85 rz350

#13 Post by nokturnal » Tue Sep 04, 2018 5:09 pm

silverstrom wrote:
If it's an 85 bike (1AG) it should have a 52Y-50 CDI. They are known to be reliable, but do fail occasionally. The 52Y-50 will give better performance than the 1UA CDI. The ignition curve on the 52Y-50 is simply better.

If it is defective, get another 52Y-50 if you go the stock route rather than the Zeel.
Do you think this would be noticeable? I don't think my butt-dyno would be able to tell. I do hate soldering though...
:smt017

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Re: No Spark 85 rz350

#14 Post by AlexG » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:27 pm

Make sure the kill switch is not tripped.


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Re: No Spark 85 rz350

#15 Post by silverstrom » Tue Sep 04, 2018 7:47 pm

nokturnal wrote:
silverstrom wrote:
If it's an 85 bike (1AG) it should have a 52Y-50 CDI. They are known to be reliable, but do fail occasionally. The 52Y-50 will give better performance than the 1UA CDI. The ignition curve on the 52Y-50 is simply better.

If it is defective, get another 52Y-50 if you go the stock route rather than the Zeel.
Do you think this would be noticeable? I don't think my butt-dyno would be able to tell. I do hate soldering though...
I restored an 85 for someone and rebuilt the engine. I rode that bike on my test circuit here (you know what my test circuit is like just outside my property) and it went like a scalded cat. I rode my 1UA after that and the 52Y CDI is indeed a better performer. Not at the very top of the rev range, but in the useful range it is a noticeable difference. I was surprised. I had previously read, perhaps in Martin's RD350 tuning manual, that the 52Y CDI was the better CDI to use, but not having an 85 of my own wasn't able to test that theory. I was genuinely surprised by the result. The 85 did perform extremely well and beyond my expectations. The difference was easily noticeable for me, but having the bikes here to make the comparison helps.

If I was replacing a CDI on a full stock bike I'd get a stock CDI, but not if the bike was an 83 or 84. The 31K CDI is shite. For an 85 or 86+ I'd stay with the stock 52Y or 1UA CDI. If the bike was modified with pipes, cylinders, reeds, and more then I'd go with the Zeeltronic or another option. That way you could also get powervalve control and tune properly. It really depends on what you are trying to achieve.

52Y CDIs are available https://www.ebay.de/itm/Yamaha-RD-350-Y ... SwLlJa3ua0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I will say though, be sure it is the CDI that has failed and find out why. 52Y failures are not common and if the failure is caused by a defective regulator-rectifier you'll kill the new CDI as soon as you start the bike and push out high voltage. If you aren't sure, replace the reg-rec as well.

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