RZ350 Super Motard

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evan_calgary
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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#886 Post by evan_calgary » Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:18 pm

pscook wrote:
Smoker wrote:
MK wrote: Two words:
Carbon
Fiber

I'm sure you can get someone to help out with a CF tank, especially if you have it mocked up in cardboard. Building a mold isn't too difficult if you are willing to build from scratch to begin with. You are effectively building a plug anyway, then a mold off the plug, and Bob's your uncle. I am certain that there are folks in your neck of the woods who would be willing to help, as I believe you are in So Cal and that area is a hotbed of Aerospace, which is cutting edge with CF parts these days. Plus all of the race shops in that area probably have lots of experience with these types of things. Heck, you could probably have a mold 3d printed off of a cardboard mockup (might cost a pretty penny), and just knock something out over the weekend. :)

On further thought, you might be able to build a mockup, make it "X" dimensions smaller, and use that as your tank plug. Build it in two pieces, join them, and line it for fuel use. Hey presto, fuel tank!
Lol @ this! Ya, just throw together a quick mold and voila, carbon fiber tank! Buddy has no idea the amount of time that goes into making a carbon tank that 1. Works and does not leak, 2.Looks good, and 3. Is flat with strong weave detail.

It is as much if not more work than making a flat sheet aluminum tank if you can weld aluminum.

On top of this, sure smoker will let you know shortly this isn't the direction he wants to go.

Always impressed with the work smoker, i really can't wait to see one of these bikes finished!

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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#887 Post by Smoker » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:16 pm

pscook wrote: Two words:
Carbon Fiber

I'm sure you can get someone to help out with a CF tank, especially if you have it mocked up in cardboard. Building a mold isn't too difficult if you are willing to build from scratch to begin with. You are effectively building a plug anyway, then a mold off the plug, and Bob's your uncle. I am certain that there are folks in your neck of the woods who would be willing to help, as I believe you are in So Cal and that area is a hotbed of Aerospace, which is cutting edge with CF parts these days. Plus all of the race shops in that area probably have lots of experience with these types of things. Heck, you could probably have a mold 3d printed off of a cardboard mockup (might cost a pretty penny), and just knock something out over the weekend. :)

On further thought, you might be able to build a mockup, make it "X" dimensions smaller, and use that as your tank plug. Build it in two pieces, join them, and line it for fuel use. Hey presto, fuel tank!
Presto??? :smt003

My guess is you have never made a CF part using a custom plug.

I've probably seen a hundred tanks and tails fabricated this way. Not difficult to do, but EXTREMELY difficult to end up with a high quality piece. The only nice CF parts I see are made by pros that do nothing but CF work. Also, because of the shape of this tank, it would be much harder to get the weave to look good.

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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#888 Post by Smoker » Wed Mar 29, 2017 3:26 pm

evan_calgary wrote:On top of this, sure smoker will let you know shortly this isn't the direction he wants to go.
Very insightful!

I guess this is the bottom line. I spent big money on carbon parts for my WR250X. Then, I realized I don't like carbon parts on dirt bikes. That's it.

There are many custom aluminum parts with nice welding beads on this bike. The naked aluminum tank will fit right in.

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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#889 Post by evan_calgary » Thu Mar 30, 2017 3:30 am

I have read enough of your work to know that a Carbon tank was not right for you on this bike!
:smt040
Smoker wrote:
evan_calgary wrote:On top of this, sure smoker will let you know shortly this isn't the direction he wants to go.
Very insightful!

I guess this is the bottom line. I spent big money on carbon parts for my WR250X. Then, I realized I don't like carbon parts on dirt bikes. That's it.

There are many custom aluminum parts with nice welding beads on this bike. The naked aluminum tank will fit right in.

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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#890 Post by pscook » Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:09 pm

Smoker wrote:
My guess is you have never made a CF part using a custom plug.

I've probably seen a hundred tanks and tails fabricated this way. Not difficult to do, but EXTREMELY difficult to end up with a high quality piece. The only nice CF parts I see are made by pros that do nothing but CF work. Also, because of the shape of this tank, it would be much harder to get the weave to look good.
Carbon fiber? Nope. Just a bit of composite experience. But thank you for your reasoned response. Yes, I was being a bit glib, but I was just putting ideas out there. I agree that high quality parts don't come cheap, easy, or quickly, but I trusted that you knew that already and just tossed out the idea. No harm or insults meant.

Regardless, I love coming and looking at the progression of all of your projects, Smoker. Good luck and keep up the great work!
2011 GasGas XC300 Enduro

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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#891 Post by Smoker » Sat Apr 08, 2017 4:22 am

Thanks, pscook. I always appreciate honest input.

Hope I can pick up the pace and make good progress. Still hurting after the last crash, but feeling more motivated lately.

MK- thanks for those pics!

Unfortunately, the titanium bar is still untouched at the machine shop. Just have to move on with other stuff 'till I get it back. Might have a couple of different titanium bobbles coming in tomorrow, though.

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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#892 Post by Smoker » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:22 am

Made 2 titanium flanged collars for mounting the silencers. Need polish & TiN coating.

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Last edited by Smoker on Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#893 Post by Smoker » Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:35 pm

After 3 weeks, I got a reply from the manufacturer about the fuel filler and cap.

Got the part numbers and contacted the US distributor.

These parts are not stocked in the USA, so I'll have to wait for them to be ordered.

Actually, that's fine. Probably no one else in the USA is using this filler/cap.

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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#894 Post by Smoker » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:12 pm

Got a cheap used OEM fuel tank.

1. To help me with some dimensions for the new custom tank.

2. Possibly as a temporary tank until the custom tank is done.

The tank doesn't fit with my new battery box, but might be able to rig it for testing purposes.

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Last edited by Smoker on Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#895 Post by Smoker » Sat May 06, 2017 4:45 pm

Been working on the titanium exhaust tip mount since January. Got the finished titanium piece yesterday and it's not even close to what I asked for.

No top cutout, side cutouts wrong, and because the external shape is wrong- it can't be fixed.

I could still use it. I could make it work. But, it won't look right to me, and I paid for 3 machined aluminum prototypes and full price for the final titanium piece.

One of the nice things about a local machine shop is that we can talk face-to-face about the job. It saves me from making perfectly detailed drawings. Sometimes the machinist whips out a paper and pencil and makes notes or writes on my drawings. Sometimes he doesn't write anything down.

This same thing has has happened a few times in the past. By the time he gets to my parts, he forgets the spoken details.

He says, he doesn't remember any part of the conversation- so it looks like I'm going to have to pay for another piece of titanium, and another big machining bill.

Too bad. The machine work is great.

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Last edited by Smoker on Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#896 Post by Smoker » Sun May 07, 2017 2:28 am

Brought the faulty titanium mount home to check the hole placement.

The first prototype didn't bolt in because the hole centers were too wide.

The second prototype bolted in rightly.

The machinist used the first prototype hole centers on the new titanium part. No idea why. The part doesn't bolt in.

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Last edited by Smoker on Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#897 Post by MK » Sun May 07, 2017 2:07 pm

So what? You expect people to remember what you told them days or weeks ago? No way.
Make a drawing or write it down - otherwise you'll repeat that game over and over.
Bye
Martin

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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#898 Post by Smoker » Sun May 07, 2017 2:42 pm

MK wrote:So what? You expect people to remember what you told them days or weeks ago? No way.
Make a drawing or write it down - otherwise you'll repeat that game over and over.
No, I can understand that he doesn't remember details after that long.

Well, I was hoping to receive the finished part about a week later. Also, there have been plenty of times when he phones me up and said- Hey, stop by and tell me again what you want.

I always bring drawings every time. We always talk about the drawings and what machine work they can actually do- and almost always make changes on the spot. He doesn't always write down the changes, and most times the part comes out correct. But there have been at least a few problems in the past when he forgets. Once, I had to pay double for some expensive work, because he forgot I paid him. I always pay in cash and never ask for a receipt.

This time, I drew the changes on the actual second prototype with a marker and explained what I wanted.

You're right, though. In the future, after we discuss what I want done, I'll have to sit at the shop and write down every detail. I've got a feeling the machinist will be writing everything down anyway, after this fiasco.

I make more mistakes than anyone else I know, but I consider it part of the learning process. It's sure taking a long time, but I'm very satisfied when I look back at the quality of work that's been done.

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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#899 Post by evan_calgary » Mon May 08, 2017 11:34 am

It could be you just tell us about all your mistakes why many people quietly forget them. :)

That is a nice custom piece of titanium. What happens to it now?

Anything custom takes a pile of error and adjustment especially if you don't have the welder sitting right there.

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Re: RZ350 Super Motard

#900 Post by MK » Mon May 08, 2017 1:12 pm

I'm in the lucky situation that I'm satisfied with much less professional solutions (like cable ties & duct tape) and that I could do 95% of necessary fabrication on my own ;-)
(And that includes a small own lathe or TIG welder incl. the necessary craftsmanship to handle them)

But whenever I had to outsource stuff like yours, I had quite similar experiences.
You exactly have in mind what you need, make a drawing, explain it a thousand times to the dude in charge and they still manage to do it differently!
Unfortunately it's a fact that if many of the guys were smart enough they'd run their own business since long. But as they're not you sometimes have to explain like you'd do for kids and then they think you're an arrogant a...hole.
In some cases real stupidity is the problem, but mostly just lack of motivation and interest.
Bye
Martin

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