My RZ250 that will be a 350....
Moderator: rztom
Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
A few days on, the vinegar is out, strained and ready for some reuse. I got 12L out that were very clear and then shook the tank before getting the rest out and yuk... it came out very black and oily. I have to say that it all came out with intact rust blisters made up of rust flakes, vinegar really does work. Of course it flash rusted in seconds as it seems always happens to me, even tho people say it doesnt flash rust on the internet... go figure lol.
With the tanks flushed, with soap and water to get rid of any more oil, I moved on to the Metal Rescue. The downside is that the tank needs to be rotated to get the coverage, and of course some bits clean up quicker than others and if you overlap you get tide marks as lines on the metal. Its inside, so who cares, this is all going to be hit with a rust protector and then a liner in due course, so im not worried about that.
What was more worrying, well really its annoying than 'worrying' of course, is that the vinegar ate thru my thin coat of clear on the outside of the tank where it leaked out of the filler cap when i didnt have the full amount and flipped the tank on it lid and now its all patchy with a light surface rust under the paint. sigh. So, before im done here i will need to wire wheel all that off again and hit it with clear after. For those that didnt read the original info on the clear, that was done as I got a tip from a local bike bodyshop that is what they do to their work if they have a tank dipped and wont use it immediately as you can easily remove it yet it provides a see through protection layer so that they can still see the state of the metal below without fear of rusting.
With the tanks flushed, with soap and water to get rid of any more oil, I moved on to the Metal Rescue. The downside is that the tank needs to be rotated to get the coverage, and of course some bits clean up quicker than others and if you overlap you get tide marks as lines on the metal. Its inside, so who cares, this is all going to be hit with a rust protector and then a liner in due course, so im not worried about that.
What was more worrying, well really its annoying than 'worrying' of course, is that the vinegar ate thru my thin coat of clear on the outside of the tank where it leaked out of the filler cap when i didnt have the full amount and flipped the tank on it lid and now its all patchy with a light surface rust under the paint. sigh. So, before im done here i will need to wire wheel all that off again and hit it with clear after. For those that didnt read the original info on the clear, that was done as I got a tip from a local bike bodyshop that is what they do to their work if they have a tank dipped and wont use it immediately as you can easily remove it yet it provides a see through protection layer so that they can still see the state of the metal below without fear of rusting.
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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
still going... turning, shaking, flipping and more of the same... and then leaving to soak in different orientations for days and nights...
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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
Metal Rescue is still going. I fashioned a proper top to stop any leaks from an oil drum lid and a bit of left over ikea kitchen cupboard, some threaded bar, slice of inner tube, a rubber washer and a wing nut. I'd do pics but suffice to say its a solid seal, phew.
Anyway, after a week of turning the tank round to soak each 'side' for 24hrs and swishing the bolts in it around every time i hit the garage, Ive got 95% of the surface rust eaten off, but there are some stubborn bits/blobs that don't want to release their hold. The metal rescue has turned them black, but theyre still stuck on. Hmm, In all the metal rescue adverts it shows that you can eat 50years of rust in 24hrs, Im not seeing that kind of performance, but will say that it is working, tho would vinegar have done the same job in a whole week when treated to the shaking and sitting like this I wonder?
So, we keep going... nothing to lose of course, tank its solid and sealing, just removing the last 5%....
Anyway, after a week of turning the tank round to soak each 'side' for 24hrs and swishing the bolts in it around every time i hit the garage, Ive got 95% of the surface rust eaten off, but there are some stubborn bits/blobs that don't want to release their hold. The metal rescue has turned them black, but theyre still stuck on. Hmm, In all the metal rescue adverts it shows that you can eat 50years of rust in 24hrs, Im not seeing that kind of performance, but will say that it is working, tho would vinegar have done the same job in a whole week when treated to the shaking and sitting like this I wonder?
So, we keep going... nothing to lose of course, tank its solid and sealing, just removing the last 5%....
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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
Metal Rescue do a product called Dry Coat that might be good to coat it with when done to prevent flash rusting until you get it back in service. I used it on an old air hoist chain I cleaned up and it seemed pretty good.
Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
They sell that here but I didnt get it was I was going to use a product that KBS sell to do a final eat and etch of rust. Ive used it on frames and other things and it didnt rust, but... Repco has 25% off this weekend, maybe i should get some and just whack it in... its a thought...
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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
Bought the Metal Rescue Dry Coat in the end and after a clean up of as much of the metal rescue as possible (tipped it all out and then put a long rag in the tank and rolled the tank around) I poured the whole of the spray bottle of Dry Coat in and proceeded to turn the tank (a lot) to coat the insides, then poured as much as i could out and put it back in the spray bottle for another job :)
Previously I did try the KBS rust etcher Ive used before but for some reason it flash rusted right away (its been very wet here for over a month), so I went with metal rescue again and then the dry coat stuff.
What I did find was that even after a good soak with 20L of vinegar and nuts and bolts which left the tank looking pretty clean, when I used the metal rescue the product went very black, which is an indication its doing its job, but also that its been used up. I find this bizarre as metal rescue is said to consume 300g of rust in its 5L of product before that happens... thats a lot of rust in a tank that had already been vinegar'd and looked quite clean. Ok, it could be true, but...
One interesting thing with many of these products is that they obviously have a chemical reaction and as such they do very slightly pressurise the tank, this is great as it proves the tank isnt leaking of course. With my new home made lid bung (mentioned above) and the alloy plate with another bit of old inner tube over the fuel tap hole, I could feel and hear the release of pressure when opening. What I did find was that when I went with the KBS product after the metal rescue was that after sitting overnight almost all of the product had escaped into the tub the tank was sitting in. What had happened was that the 2nd 'pin hole looking dark dot' I identified when I first got the tank had finally let go. I dont know if the pressure of the KBS stuff was different, whether the rust had finally got eaten up, or if it was just 'its time', but when I flipped the tank I could hear the pressure escaping and see bubbles at that spot. The hole was minimal, about 0.3mm across if that maybe less, but it had still allowed almost 1L of product to escape overnight, might have been only a few hours as I have no idea when during the wee hours it actually failed of course. Anyway, I welded that up after dishing the metal a little so that I wouldnt need to grind the weld back as much, filler will make this area flat again.
Previously I did try the KBS rust etcher Ive used before but for some reason it flash rusted right away (its been very wet here for over a month), so I went with metal rescue again and then the dry coat stuff.
What I did find was that even after a good soak with 20L of vinegar and nuts and bolts which left the tank looking pretty clean, when I used the metal rescue the product went very black, which is an indication its doing its job, but also that its been used up. I find this bizarre as metal rescue is said to consume 300g of rust in its 5L of product before that happens... thats a lot of rust in a tank that had already been vinegar'd and looked quite clean. Ok, it could be true, but...
One interesting thing with many of these products is that they obviously have a chemical reaction and as such they do very slightly pressurise the tank, this is great as it proves the tank isnt leaking of course. With my new home made lid bung (mentioned above) and the alloy plate with another bit of old inner tube over the fuel tap hole, I could feel and hear the release of pressure when opening. What I did find was that when I went with the KBS product after the metal rescue was that after sitting overnight almost all of the product had escaped into the tub the tank was sitting in. What had happened was that the 2nd 'pin hole looking dark dot' I identified when I first got the tank had finally let go. I dont know if the pressure of the KBS stuff was different, whether the rust had finally got eaten up, or if it was just 'its time', but when I flipped the tank I could hear the pressure escaping and see bubbles at that spot. The hole was minimal, about 0.3mm across if that maybe less, but it had still allowed almost 1L of product to escape overnight, might have been only a few hours as I have no idea when during the wee hours it actually failed of course. Anyway, I welded that up after dishing the metal a little so that I wouldnt need to grind the weld back as much, filler will make this area flat again.
80 XT500 Supermoto!
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82 RD350LC decapitation project
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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
This tank now has oil in it, I dumped the unused portion of an old can of fork oil in it and rotated it for a while, and is resting awaiting my plan to paint this bike... its just so much money to pay someone trustworthy to do this in Aus :(
The vinegar used in this tank also has been given a second life. Ive been cleaning up all my bolts and stuff that has sat in boxes for ages and the rust is all gone now. I plan to have the bucket load all nickel plated and then I can use them again in my builds, otherwise they are just useless rusty junk. I also found that vinegar also lifts rattle can paint if left for a while and wire brushed on occasion, which is a bonus. The main bulk of my 20L of vinegar was gifted to a friend whois working in a Fiat 500 from the late 50s. The tank was quite clean from running through his expensive parts washer in his workshop but it still had a bit of rust in it, so we bought a little extra vinegar and its all now in the tank chewing on the rust. :)
The vinegar used in this tank also has been given a second life. Ive been cleaning up all my bolts and stuff that has sat in boxes for ages and the rust is all gone now. I plan to have the bucket load all nickel plated and then I can use them again in my builds, otherwise they are just useless rusty junk. I also found that vinegar also lifts rattle can paint if left for a while and wire brushed on occasion, which is a bonus. The main bulk of my 20L of vinegar was gifted to a friend whois working in a Fiat 500 from the late 50s. The tank was quite clean from running through his expensive parts washer in his workshop but it still had a bit of rust in it, so we bought a little extra vinegar and its all now in the tank chewing on the rust. :)
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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
I finally got round to painting my pipes... Did the LC and the F1 at the same time with KBS eXteme:
They say:
“Guaranteed not to burn off!
XTC is a high temperature / heat resistant coating formulated specifically to protect metal surfaces operating at temperatures from 260°C – 812°C.”
The first part got me in... We’ll see.
They say:
“Guaranteed not to burn off!
XTC is a high temperature / heat resistant coating formulated specifically to protect metal surfaces operating at temperatures from 260°C – 812°C.”
The first part got me in... We’ll see.
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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
Looks good.
Rory
2 1984 RZ350s
1985 RZ350
9 1986-1990 RZ350s
2000 ST2
2005 749
2005 749 with 999 engine
2 1984 RZ350s
1985 RZ350
9 1986-1990 RZ350s
2000 ST2
2005 749
2005 749 with 999 engine
Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
Thanks mate. Just got to do a bunch of other jobs and I can run it up and cure the pipes...
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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
More bloody pipes hanging from the rafters.......lol.
Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
421 pipes now off the bike as its been stripped for the resto bikes frame, LC pipes for the resto bike (where the hell is my powdercoat AusPost?) and F1 pipes about to go on the bike...
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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
"Guaranteed not to burn off."
Sounds worth a try, but I guess I've never had any hi-temp paint actually "burn off".
If it burned off, I think it would bubble up and smoke, and then disappear or fall off.
My paint always lasts for several months of use before starting to flake off. My guess is the expanding and contracting of the metal weakens the bond and cracks the paint.
Now, I'm curious how long chrome lasts on the head pipe.
In due time, please give us an update on that paint.
Sounds worth a try, but I guess I've never had any hi-temp paint actually "burn off".
If it burned off, I think it would bubble up and smoke, and then disappear or fall off.
My paint always lasts for several months of use before starting to flake off. My guess is the expanding and contracting of the metal weakens the bond and cracks the paint.
Now, I'm curious how long chrome lasts on the head pipe.
In due time, please give us an update on that paint.
Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
Haha, its a classic bit of advertising isnt it. I wonder what they give you, cash wise, if it happens etc. No mention is made of any limits of where to send your pics of issues... of course they will all be cos you didnt prep or use it right :)
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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....
After sitting at the back of the shed for ages (again), this bike is now back on my lift having some work done...
First job was to clean the carbs as its been stood a while. Actually this was simple to do and they were quite clean considering they didn’t have 2 stroke mix in them as this bike runs the pump. The fuel (Aussie 98 octane) was even ok looking in the bowl, tho it was a bit ‘brown’, and didn’t smell bad... and most pleasing of all’ it hadnt formed green slime or ‘carb poo’. Phew! PWKs are a nice easy carb to work on, and getting them on and off is easy enough, even with my 6mm spacers if you remember to leave the airbox rubbers on the carbs and flap them back over over the bell mouth, you then flip em back over the airbox when refitting. Don’t forget the clamps!
Next up to was fit the OEM footrests. I refurbished them a while back when I refinished the alloy and I also bought new rubbers (still available new for $22ish each)...
They look great... Until you put em up next to the 86-on ones on the bike... Sigh. But, originality calls... The weigh way more than the N/F2s version as well... Damn you ‘Originality’!
Final job of the day was to fit the OEM pipes I recently painted. Regular readers may recall that I sold the TSAs I had on this bike tho they did sound and look nice. The now restored OEM pipes were refitted to make a more ‘OEM’ looking bike for historic rego, and while this bike still has a few ‘secret upgrades’ its mainly standard now. I may still go another way with pipes later, but Im pleased to have the OEMs on it now, that little project was a journey in itself.
More jobs to come...
First job was to clean the carbs as its been stood a while. Actually this was simple to do and they were quite clean considering they didn’t have 2 stroke mix in them as this bike runs the pump. The fuel (Aussie 98 octane) was even ok looking in the bowl, tho it was a bit ‘brown’, and didn’t smell bad... and most pleasing of all’ it hadnt formed green slime or ‘carb poo’. Phew! PWKs are a nice easy carb to work on, and getting them on and off is easy enough, even with my 6mm spacers if you remember to leave the airbox rubbers on the carbs and flap them back over over the bell mouth, you then flip em back over the airbox when refitting. Don’t forget the clamps!
Next up to was fit the OEM footrests. I refurbished them a while back when I refinished the alloy and I also bought new rubbers (still available new for $22ish each)...
They look great... Until you put em up next to the 86-on ones on the bike... Sigh. But, originality calls... The weigh way more than the N/F2s version as well... Damn you ‘Originality’!
Final job of the day was to fit the OEM pipes I recently painted. Regular readers may recall that I sold the TSAs I had on this bike tho they did sound and look nice. The now restored OEM pipes were refitted to make a more ‘OEM’ looking bike for historic rego, and while this bike still has a few ‘secret upgrades’ its mainly standard now. I may still go another way with pipes later, but Im pleased to have the OEMs on it now, that little project was a journey in itself.
More jobs to come...
80 XT500 Supermoto!
81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid
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81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid
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