My RZ250 that will be a 350....

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RuZty
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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#721 Post by RuZty » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:17 am

Thanks Jon, I don't have a WRX myself, as much as I'd like one, but a friend would be interested in it if you don't mind a follow up (or PM).

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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#722 Post by JonW » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:22 am

No worries, I'm flat out this week on other stuff but will do a write up next week for the Garage's Fb page (they asked me to do it for them) and also can then report back on my thoughts, suffice to say the calipers are on and i'm bedding the pads on, happy days. :)

Oh and yeah the new '16 WRX is superb for my uses in case anyone is wondering about these, it runs strong and im going to do a few small things to it, but nothing obvious and bling, just stuff that looks and works as factory. The brakes were the start for me, cant go faster if you dont like the brakes, and you all know i do like big brakes LOL :)
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82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#723 Post by JonW » Wed Jun 08, 2016 4:09 am

For those who were interested in the Cadilac calipers on the MY15+ WRX, click this link where I wrote the fitting up for NRG Automotive, has pics and next week we will add a post to their facebook with how it feels, backed up with numbers from the test meter:

https://www.facebook.com/NRGAutomotive/ ... 4364031789" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
80 XT500 Supermoto!
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82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
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85 RZ350 F1 Resto
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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#724 Post by JonW » Fri Jul 29, 2016 2:54 am

Its funny how things with your fleet come in waves, sometimes you end up building a motor and then do another right away for another bike, or perhaps start painting and end up doing parts of multiple bikes, or even source specific parts for one machine and end up with the same basic parts (tho totally different part numbers etc) for another. The past few weeks has all been about exhausts for me... I’ve been playing with the new silencer design for the XT, ordering up the parts to make end cans for the 421 and also been working on the F1’s pipes.

Naturally the F1 does things differently, and doesn’t have pipes quite like any other bike. The 350 pipes still have the same 31K part number as the earlier (83/4) machines, but are different due to ‘special dents’ in the back where the rear axle is located. This was done to allow the wider rear axle that was used in the box section swingarm (which made its debut in 85) and was wider than the simple plate part of the swinger in the earlier models. Most people wouldnt even know this 'dent' was there unless you pointed it out to them, its a big dent but its hidden and no one worries about the back of their pipes. Of course the ‘86 models used the ‘separated-expansion-looking-pipes’ so as usual the pipes for these bikes are a one year deal. Yep another hard to find part.... Again!

For completeness I will add that in Aus the 250 version of the ‘85, the 1GA, came with the ‘expansion style’ pipes (and had actual detachable silencers, 51L part numbers, look em up if you don’t believe me LOL!), but the (rarer here as less sold) 350 came with lesser performing (ie not the new design) cigars like the rest of the world. For those new to this build, Australia was one of the few markets to still have rules/registration that favoured the 250 models and in 1985 these 51L engined/piped bikes were rockets that everyone else bar the Japanese missed out on. However, I’m building mine as a 350, so needed two decent 350 pipes... No tall order in Aus :(

I actually had a set of the correct type of pipes that came with the bike when I bought it. One was in good shape with only minimal dents, the other had had the weight of the bike on it while still making forward motion at least once. I needed another pipe... I searched, waited... And waited some more... Leads came and went, promsies were broken... I waited some more... I bought TSA pipes and then sold them, and started the looking/waiting/promises thing all over again. Patience is a virtue luckily.

A couple of weeks back I was trawling Gumtree and a lad in the south of Sydney had a set of the earlier pipes for sale, the right pipe was said to be perfect and the other one was a bit trashed. I got onto him and went to grab them (and view his collection of bikes) the next day.

The right pipe was pretty good, no it wasn’t perfect but I could repair the small dents and I figured I could form the special axle dent in the back so I set about working on the two pipes... And as expected it was a little more work that I thought at the start. Always buy nice pipes when you see them, its a rule. I would have saved a lot of hassle if the Aussie market had been larger and people didn’t tend to use and abuse the bikes as much here, or even if owners had fitted aftermarket pipes before crashing LOL!

First off I had to fix the small dents and sand out some of the scratches. The worst of the damage on my ‘original’ pipe was actually done by the PO of my bike, they had decided to retain the baffles by drilling a large hole right through the pipes and fitting a long bolt from top to bottom. That would have been fine, but they also decided to tighten this down with sufficient force to seriously dent the metalwork and oval the pipe.

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I pulled as much of the metal back into shape as I could and then fitted a washer in the lower hole and then used an end mill to clean a space for an allen headed bolt which would be the fixing for the baffle from now on.

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...and for the top I built the whole top edge back up with weld. Not easy as these pipes are actually made of very thin material, thinner than the LC pipes for sure. All these repairs were skimmed with JB Weld, sanded and painted with a first thick coat of KBS extreme temp paint to help disguise the edge, we’ll see how well this works when I do the final sand and paint (by spray gun) and then run them I guess. The 2nd pic is the brush painted finish, its very grey in this photo, maybe its the flash, it should be satin when final painted.

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Amusingly I was able to test the heat resistance of ‘normal’ JB Weld and the paint pretty well when I welded the other side of the pipe end and even with all that heat both products stood up well with no lifting or melting issues.

Last but not least I had to create the special dent. This is what an original one looks like (ignore the obvious extra dings and out of place dents, they're damage picked up from 30+ years of abuse):

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I don’t know of anyone else who has ever done this, so I figured I’d give it a go... I used the old pipe as a template and set to work. The sweep line is where the original pipe was marked by an axle nut or something when the bike went over on the pipe, pushing it towards the axle and then unloading the suspension across it. Anyway, it gave me an idea where the main part of the dent needed to clear the very least. Its worth noting that with an old coat hanger I could determine that these pipes have a circular baffle plate right where this ‘dent’ is located, so I cut open the pipe either side, then bent down the flap edges, cut out the piece of the baffle straight across and then welded small sections back over the hole once the sheet metal was cajoled into place with a few choice tools including a jack handle and a bit of my bike ramp LOL

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So, not beautiful but a reasonable copy of the original 'dent' and its the right profile when viewed from above, the correct size and shape and it's in the right place, it only lacks the two oblong stamping marks the OEM had and you only see those when the pipe is off the bike. Of course, most people wouldn't even know these dents existed, let alone worrying about the size and shape so perhaps Ive gone overboard and should have just 'whacked it with a hammer, job done' as one mate suggested, but hey I want to be as close to original as possible where I can be.

All they need now is that final coat of paint and they're ready for fitting the baffles and I’ve decided that Im going to use the 2 ‘ends’ I originally made for the LC as Ive managed to fab up a pair of complete LC baffles from the bits n bobs I had kept over the years. Should sound good I hope.
80 XT500 Supermoto!
81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid

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South_Oz
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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#725 Post by South_Oz » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:26 am

A lot of work but worth it in the end Jon. Well done.

Dave
RZ 250 85 (Waiting)
RZ 250 85 (Parts)
RGV VJ21 250, Australian Speed Record Holder, MPS/G 250, 140.5 MPH
BMW R1100S 99 (Its Red)
BMW R1200GS (Its BIG)


http://www.dlra.org.au/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#726 Post by JonW » Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:56 am

Thanks Dave!

Rereading what I wrote, the part thats not really obvious from the pics is the work that went in to fixing the top of the original F1 pipe that came with the bike. Butt welding in a wide M6 washer and sorting out the circa 12mm hole and dents in the muffler bolt area was easy enough and you dont see it when its done of course, its the top that was mental. the whole pipe was oval from the compression of the thru-bolting and even after lifting the edges as much as possible I still had to weld a fat M10 nut into the hole, then weld around and build it all up. The steel plate is thin but gentle work and lots of grinding, then repeating the process had it pretty good and once it was skimmed with jbweld it came up like you see it in the pics. I still cant quite believe someone would drill a pipe all the way through, but this is Australia where old bikes become farm bikes and no one spends any money on them and just bodges to make em work for the next joy ride. My poor bike... like many others here its kind of lucky to have us all restoring them, but the DPOs have never made it easy on us...
80 XT500 Supermoto!
81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid

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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#727 Post by JonW » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:26 am

Obviously as we know from my previous posts, once I do something to one bike I also tend to do it to another, so while I was working on the LC footrests I also got busy with the original battered and bruised F1 units.

I struggled to find any before pics, but you can sort of get the feel for the mess I started if you view the sale pics of this bike on the early pages of this thread. Suffice to say, I had to get quite brutal with the wet n dry on these and then used the mechanical polishing mops. With a mirror finsh restored I then glass bead blasted everything apart from the faces, as that was very very close to the original cast finish. This also peens the surface and stops it oxidising, so with the polish and the blasting I should have something that holds its finish in this climate. Of course, no powdercoat on these, I didnt think the exhaust hanger rubber would take 200degC!

Pics are not easy with polished things, they reflect clouds and everything else of course... that is proven in the first pic which looks dull and blotchy, but its just reflections, you can see your face in these...

Image

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Image
80 XT500 Supermoto!
81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid

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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#728 Post by JonW » Wed Sep 21, 2016 5:57 am

Obviously I couldn't leave it there... I sifted through all the footrests Ive acquired over the years. I figured that obviously none of those that came with this bike would be any good, so Ive been searching, buying up and being gifted odd ones over the years and my hoarding paid off as I had enough half decent units to clean up and use. I even had a half decent example of the (technically not correct for an F1) locking right main footrest, so im using that.

The one thing you cant fix is the dings and scratches in the chrome caused by all those offs over the years, so finding a set without any damage would be tough I bet. Same with the main[*] footpeg rubbers, they are like car pedals and the mere act of your feet being on them rubs wear into them, but I have found thats theyre still available from Yamaha for about US$20each as they were fitted to plenty of that era's bikes.

Ok, so while they're not perfect, they're much much better than what I originally had with this bike.
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The 20 million dollar question is... Will I really want to pull off the 86-on units that Ive got on the bike now? I really do prefer their more modern (500 style) look to the backwards looking LC style that these early RZs had.... I guess the quest for originality hurts in more ways than one...

* - The rear footrest rubbers have been long been NLA sadly.
80 XT500 Supermoto!
81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid

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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#729 Post by JonW » Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:26 am

You might want to consider this a cautionary tale, depending on the state of your fuel tanks paintwork...

A local lad has been having some work done to his RZ bodywork and the start of that process was to get the old liner out of his tank. The paintshop suggested he get some high concentrate (neat maybe?) MEK that they use for their paint gun cleaning, so he did. Once he had a clean tank of some really nasty lumps of liner he offered the remains to me and I stuck it in the tank that originally came with this bike, that like many RZ tanks looked pretty good and just needed the liner removing...

Ok, for those that don’t know, MEK is basically the active ingredient in paint stripper and within an hour I could see that it was going to get the resin like crap out of this tank without issue, its nasty nasty stuff, nasty enough for this job. Nothing else had touched the resin when I tried it previously.

As I didn’t get much, maybe 1L, of the product since I was using leftovers I had to turn the tank around every few hours and decided that leaving it to sit in there for days as I flipped it onto the sides shouldn’t be an issue, I mean MEK will eat everything but the steel, so its no problem, right? Well, yes that is right, but you cant odds what previous owners have done. I had the tank sat on some folded up thick cardboard boxes from a new set of table and chairs and Im glad I did.

The MEK ate through the liner on one side, the one that looked the best. It then found that there was a pin hole or two of rust where there was what I can see now looks like the end of a nasty gash in the side of the tank. After it came through the pin hole it ate the filler and paint that was covering the gash and then proceeded to soak into the cardboard.

By the time I found it, it had all leaked out through the pin hole soaking the cardboard but luckily not ruining my freshly paint garage floor, phew!

Binning the cardboard, airing the garage and flushing the tank has reduced the horrible MEK smell, you shouldn’t breathe the fumes from MEK in, but it does make you realise that even if you have what looks like a half decent tank (which mine does, even tho it isnt well painted) you can still find that someone has been a bit dodgy and used filler and the liner to stop up any holes. If this has been a really nice looking paint job it would have been ruined at this point, something worth thinking about if removing any liner in a nice tank of course...

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The gash looks awful in these close up shots, and originally I did wonder how on earth it got there... but since i was thinking Id clean and weld it up I had a good look under some more of the filler and I think whats happened is that this has rotted above where the liner is sitting, hence the strange angle of the crack/gash. Revealing more of the damage underneath makes me think its all impossibly thin now and if i do redo it, I will need to cut the whole section out and start again, perhaps on both sides. Im up for that, but not this week.
80 XT500 Supermoto!
81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid

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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#730 Post by JonW » Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:33 am

In the meantime Ive been working on the other tank I got a little while back for this build.

After a big rinse through with some Kero to get the worst of the ‘protecting oil’ and then lots of water to get the dust out I filled it with some of a wonder product that’s taken Australia by storm – Metal Rescue.

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What I find particularly interesting about this product is that its ads proclaim exactly the same features as the pro dipping services that are offered round here, leading me to wonder if its the same stuff, only the pros have a bigger bath of it.

So, on special I bought 5L for just under Au$45, its normally mid 60s. A pro dip was $165 last time I checked and I expect costs more now. The beauty of this plan is that once ive used it in the tank I’ll still have it for other jobs, I just need to turn the tank around to get coverage as it works.

Of course, its been a while and I’d forgotten that the tank had a couple of pin holes that possibly needed repairing, the first one sprung a leak within minutes LOL

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After emptying the tank and drying I quickly zipped it up with the welder, including the rusty pitted part of the seam. Grinding it back I had another go, this time with some vinegar and some nuts and bolts as I wanted to save the metal rescue until a bit later... Question is... Will this other one leak...

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... Find out tomorrow....
80 XT500 Supermoto!
81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid

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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#731 Post by hondaror » Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:36 am

Nice work!
Tanks are a bitch to save. I did 4 this past summer. Many hours.
Rory
2 1984 RZ350s
1985 RZ350
9 1986-1990 RZ350s
2000 ST2
2005 749
2005 749 with 999 engine

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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#732 Post by JonW » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:39 pm

Aint that the truth Rory!

Ok, todays update... As mentioned, I decided to run vinegar through this tank before the metal rescue, vinegar costs $1.20 for 2L so I bought a bunch of it. Ive used it before and other than giving me a hanking for fish n chips (its the Englishman in me) it works well.

So, overnight im pleased to report no leaks... Ive added some more vinegar and lets see if when the rust is eaten out what im left with after a few days...
80 XT500 Supermoto!
81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid

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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#733 Post by JonW » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:41 am

After another run to the supermarket the tank is now full of 20L of vinegar and its working well to eat off this surface rust. The metal rescue will have an easy life in here afterwards i think. :)
80 XT500 Supermoto!
81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid

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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#734 Post by hondaror » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:20 am

I've used that same rescue. It's great stuff, and you can reuse it. I'm thinking your vinegar bath is an excellent idea for keeping the rescue at minimal contamination. So ya, totally feel the same way about it.
Rory
2 1984 RZ350s
1985 RZ350
9 1986-1990 RZ350s
2000 ST2
2005 749
2005 749 with 999 engine

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Re: My RZ250 that will be a 350....

#735 Post by JonW » Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:58 pm

Yes thats the plan, use the cheap stuff to do the main work and have the Metal Rescue finish it off without ruining the good stuff :) also with a whole 20L I can fill the tank fully, I cant do that with metal rescue due to the costs I only have 5L and will need to rotate the tank to get it working etc. Even on special 20L of Metal Rescue would be close on $200, 20L of vinegar is $12 :) The vinegar is also reusable of course, tho I doubt i will keep it all.

Checking it this morning i could still see what looked like areas where the rust was more orange and still on the metal, so using the edge of a screwdriver i rubbed it and they floated straight off leaving a cleanish surface. I'll leave 'the experiment' going until tomorrow but I reckon the vinegar has done its work already, I just want to be totally sure before I use the metal rescue for the last stubborn bits.
80 XT500 Supermoto!
81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid

Like Watches? www.PloProf.com & www.DeskDivers.com

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