Track Bike - Plan B

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Off Road
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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#466 Post by Off Road » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:13 am

Here’s the new view from the seat.
The round thing mounted on top of the gauges is my new shift light.
The old shift light, (above the air-valve cap on the left fork tube), just wasn’t up to the job
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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#467 Post by Off Road » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:13 am

The clubman bars lower my hands and put more of my weight on the front wheel than the old bars did.
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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#468 Post by Off Road » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:14 am

Hopefully the extra front end weight will keep the wheel closer to the ground when I launching the bike.
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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#469 Post by Off Road » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:14 am

If all goes according to plan, I should be tucked in behind the gauges by the time I hit second gear.
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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#470 Post by Off Road » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:15 am

In the previous picture you can see that when I’m up to speed, the shift light is at eye level, and 8” or 10” in front of my helmet.
So, even in the bright sunlight, I will have no trouble seeing it when it comes on.
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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#471 Post by Off Road » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:25 am

After 3 out of 9 CMDRA races, my points standings are as follows:

In the Hot Twin Class, I'm in 3rd place, 70 points behind 1st place.

In the Street Class, I'm in 5th place, 91 points behind 1st place.

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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#472 Post by hondaror » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:01 am

That smaller sprocket on your countershaft is going to hurt your terminal speed. If things don't improve for you in the first 60, consider going back to 17 up front and dropping a couple in the rear. That will force you to clutch more on the launch, and the bike will be less of a wheelie machine...plus it might help your terminal speed if you can get the ball rolling, so to speak.
The TZs are no good down low, 9000 on the tach and a massive slip and feather on the clutch only invites bogging until you get up to speed. Thinking along these lines might actually help you. Two teeth down on the rear is not a radical change, but it will force you to rev higher with more slip action. If anything, it will force you to launch better until you figure out what is going to work best for you.
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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#473 Post by Questo vecchio rz » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:06 pm

I'm gonna throw in my best, recommendations to help you, I want to hear about how much fun your having.

1.) 1st thing Practice your new set up BEFORE you go to the track.
2.) Keep the 16 counter sprocket, it will absolutley lower your E.T. You won't have enough power to pull a 17. You need 70+ h.p. for a 17.
3.) DROP that front! By all means, lower your forks in the triples as (far as you can). With clubman's, (I cannot see your picture clearly) but your likley limited as to how far you can slide them up as the bars are in the way , clip-ons are the ticket . You can always (strap the forks.) Obviously ONLY for the strip. I'd like to see a 2" drop to start, I don't think you can get that, but regardless it takes 15-20 min drop em as far as you can! Thus is A MUST DO :smt045
4.) Depending upon what rear shock you have, Fox/Peske(ride height) ?? No matter. Do what you need to to lower it as much as possible.
5.) Check your chain slack, if excessive chain sag fro the 16 ...slide the axle back and regain some tension, you want it precise on a launch. NO jolting!
6.) Lower your rear tire pressure, Start with 10-15 lbs, see how it feels.
7.) Make sure your clutch is in great condition, not good but great.
8.) Only put 1/2 gallon OR LESS! of fuel in the tank. .Think Light! That could be 30+ lbs of fuel.. weight is fatal to a E.T. in a low h.p. bike.

Xtra notes:
9.) Mark and note all your current suspension settings so you can return to them for the street.
10.) Regarding the weight anything you can easily remove every pound matters.
11.)MOST IMPORTANT! DO NOT WAIT TILL RACE DAY TO TEST YOUR NEW CHASSIS SET UP & LAUNCHES! PRACTICE BEFORE YOU GO!!
Do these simple things & your gonna Rock it! I know you will :smt023
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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#474 Post by rzrej » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:05 pm

Sounds like great advice Questo, nothing like experience! Once he gets the launches down, look out. Steve, you're already making big improvements in your reaction time, the rest will come.

Won't be able to make it to Fort St. John so good luck, all the best. Should be able to make it to Med Hat though.

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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#475 Post by Off Road » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:20 am

Oops. :smt003
Last edited by Off Road on Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#476 Post by Off Road » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:20 am

Hey Rory.
I was running a 17 tooth front and a 40 tooth rear sprocket.
If I had a bad start and wasted the first 30” or 40” of track doing a wheelie, then I was all wound out in 5th gear at he finish.
If I had a decent start, I would just be shifting into 6th at the finish.
With the lower gearing I should be pulling hard in 6th gear at the end.
(Well, that’s the plan anyway)

I’m really interested in how this will affect my 60’ times.
From what I’ve been told by the other racers, a 0.1 second reduction in 60” time, results in 0.2 or 0.25 second quicker time in the ¼ mile.


Hi Reg.
It would be cool if you could make it down to the Hat for the races.

I really want to thank you and Rory for coming out to the race in Edmonton.
The moral support was greatly appreciated guys. :smt023

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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#477 Post by Off Road » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:22 am

Questo.
Thanks for taking the time to post a lot of great information.

Questo vecchio rz wrote: 1.) 1st thing Practice your new set up BEFORE you go to the track.
Noted

Questo vecchio rz wrote: 2.) Keep the 16 counter sprocket, it will absolutley lower your E.T. You won't have enough power to pull a 17. You need 70+ h.p. for a 17.
I had both a 15 and a 16 tooth sprocket in my spare parts, and decided to just make a small change to begin with.
I’ll take the 15 and the 17 with me when I go racing next weekend, but I doubt that I’ll end up using them.
He 16 tooth will have to be pretty bad before I’ll change it at the track.

Questo vecchio rz wrote: 3.) DROP that front! By all means, lower your forks in the triples as (far as you can). With clubman's, (I cannot see your picture clearly) but your likley limited as to how far you can slide them up as the bars are in the way , clip-ons are the ticket . You can always (strap the forks.) Obviously ONLY for the strip. I'd like to see a 2" drop to start, I don't think you can get that, but regardless it takes 15-20 min drop em as far as you can! Thus is A MUST DO :smt045
Dropping the front end is limited by the clubman bars hitting on the fork caps.
The 83 RZ fork caps stick up a long was because of the air valve on the top of the cap.
I’d like to find a set of the 85 Canadian fork caps, they have a much lower profile.

Questo vecchio rz wrote: 4.) Depending upon what rear shock you have, Fox/Peske(ride height) ?? No matter. Do what you need to to lower it as much as possible.
I’ve running an FZ600 swing-arm and dog-bones on this bike.
According to the spreadsheet that I did on the rear suspension, this mod lowers the rear ride height by 30 mm (1.25”).

Questo vecchio rz wrote: 5.) Check your chain slack, if excessive chain sag fro the 16 ...slide the axle back and regain some tension, you want it precise on a launch. NO jolting!
The chain has been readjusted after installing the new sprocket.
While inspecting the chain sprockets and rear wheel, I noticed that the is some play in the chain and fair amount of slack in the rear wheel cush drive.
Kinda sucks, but considering my racing budget, there’s not much I can do about it.

Questo vecchio rz wrote: 6.) Lower your rear tire pressure, Start with 10-15 lbs, see how it feels.
So far, my racing strategy has been to Run What I Brung.
There was no point in making a whole bunch of changes to the bike, because I had no idea how it was going to perform.
At the 1st race of the season, I ran 34 PSI in the rear tire. My normal street pressure.
For the 2nd race, I dropped the pressure to 30 psi.
For the 3rd race, I dropped the pressure down to 25 psi.

For the next race (next Saturday), I’ll go with 20 psi just to see how it feels.
If all is good, then I’ll try 15 psi for Sundays series of races.

Questo vecchio rz wrote: 7.) Make sure your clutch is in great condition, not good but great.
The clutch is not Great. It’s good. Works fine on the street and hasn’t given me any problems at the track so far.
But, it’s been in the bike for quite a number of years. Probably got 5000 or 6000 miles on it.
Tomorrow morning, I’m going to order a new set of clutch fibers.
They’ll arrive on Wednesday, and I can get them soaking in tranny oil.

Questo vecchio rz wrote: 8.) Only put 1/2 gallon OR LESS! of fuel in the tank. .Think Light! That could be 30+ lbs of fuel.. weight is fatal to a E.T. in a low h.p. bike.
I put the gas tank petcock on PRI and applied a vacuum to the other hose, and let the tank drain.
All that remains in the tank is the reserve amount, which is about a half a gallon or so.

Questo vecchio rz wrote: 9.) Mark and note all your current suspension settings so you can return to them for the street.
I did make some notes and took a bunch of pics before making any changes.
Questo vecchio rz wrote: 10.) Regarding the weight anything you can easily remove every pound matters.
Getting rid of excess fuel is the easiest way to drop some significant weight off the bike.
I also removed the front turn signals. Had to, they interfered with the clubman bars.

Questo vecchio rz wrote: 11.)MOST IMPORTANT! DO NOT WAIT TILL RACE DAY TO TEST YOUR NEW CHASSIS SET UP & LAUNCHES! PRACTICE BEFORE YOU GO!!
I figured this sounded like a really good idea.
So, after I finished all the chores that the wife had planned for me, I told her I was going for a short bike ride.
She’s seen me working on the bike for the last week, so I told her I need to go out and check out how the changes were going to work.
Headed over to a deserted industrial section near the shop and practiced launching the bike.

I did 2 or 3 launches at 4000, then 4500, and then 5000 rpm.
The bike felt great. I did 7 or 8 starts and didn’t pull any sky wheelies.
The bike still pulled the front wheel, but it stayed closer to the ground, felt more controlled and less scary.

At 4000 the bike still bog a bit before it takes off.

At 4500, I got a pretty good launch. I had to feather the clutch to about 6500 to 7000 rpm before I could full engage it, but it worked pretty good.

At 5000, it took off pretty hard. Pulled the front wheel up almost instantly.
Again a fair bit of slipping the clutch until about 7000 rpm.

However, there is a problem when I try to launch at 5000 rpm, or any rpm above 5000.
My clutch drags a bit, and when I when I get up near 5000, the bike starts to creep forward.
I can stop this with 1 finger on the brake lever, but then it’s just another thing to think about at the starting line.



So, the Plan for next weekend’s race is to launch at 4500 rpm, and pay attention to throttle and clutch control.
If I can get consistent launches and keep the front wheel down, then I can start and focus on getting my reaction times down.


Final bit of trivia for the evening.
So far, my best time in the ¼ mile is 13.12 seconds.
I was curious about how that compared to the stock bikes when they were new.
I dug out a couple of old bike mags to have a look

Cycle Canada – September 1986
Comparison between the RZ350 and the NS400R
NS400R – ¼ Mile time of 12.32 seconds at 109.35 mph
RZ350 – ¼ Mile time of 12.95 seconds at 102.73 mph

Hmmm. My best time so far is 13.12 at 103.50 mph. If I had a good launch, I could run 12.95.

Then I found another magazine with an RZ350 review.

Cycle Canada – July 1983
RZ350 – ¼ Mile time of 12.66 seconds at 106.25 mph. [smilie=notworthy.gif]

Damn, that’s pretty quick. Who the hell was riding that thing?

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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#478 Post by Questo vecchio rz » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:36 am

Off Road wrote: Cycle Canada – September 1986
Comparison between the RZ350 and the NS400R
NS400R – ¼ Mile time of 12.32 seconds at 109.35 mph
RZ350 – ¼ Mile time of 12.95 seconds at 102.73 mph

Hmmm. My best time so far is 13.12 at 103.50 mph. If I had a good launch, I could run 12.95.

Then I found another magazine with an RZ350 review.

Cycle Canada – July 1983
RZ350 – ¼ Mile time of 12.66 seconds at 106.25 mph. [smilie=notworthy.gif]

Damn, that’s pretty quick. Who the hell was riding that thing?
Edit time, I'm the king of smartphone typos w no glasses...lol

13s flat we're about the norm. One thing to note, many if not most these motorcycle 1/4 times, were posted by the major motorcycle publications of that era, and almost all of them were in Southern California and the local drag strips were at sea level where the bikes perform run faster, and I would not be surprised if other tracks ran "correction factors" which gave them corrected quarter mile times for sea level.
With a pro drag racer a 12.6 could likley be possible. Some of those guys were truly talented such as the late, great Jay "Pee Wee" Gleason. He was regularly the hired gun by manufactures to lay down 1/4 Mile times often 1 second faster than anyone else.
In 1985 he took a Yamaha V Max into the 9s How was that possible...lol .

I too also sometimes used a 15 tooth countershaft sprocket, definitely helped E.T. times however would have to have the bike lowered for that, as wheelies are unstoppable.

Depending upon how much drag racing you intend to do I would search for a set of clip-ons to mount under the triples so you could lower that front end for the track, you'd be shocked as to how hard you can launch that bike with a deep front end..!!
You might consider strapping the front end w tie downs, it's crude...but works...lol
I used Spec2 built strut wheelie bar a few times but I had terrible luck with it going off on angles.. I definitely could have used some lessons in chassis/ wheelie bar set-up. Ya think it would be simple..but it was awkward for me.

100-500 RPMs can make a fair amount of difference in launching ability, sounds like you're on the right course. Practice makes perfect you don't want to be doing anything new when you get to the Christmas tree. Also it's good for nerves to to go through it in your brain imagine yourself staging leaning over the bike getting comfortable with the balance ,holding in the clutch..then leaving etc...

Practicing in an industrial center! I can actually go back in time and remember doing the same thing !
Banshee (Baja) race bike,+ 2 A Arms,L.E.Ds, Toomey, +4 stroker IMS tank, run flats.
96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ/YZR bike(project)
86 VFR750 RC24 Merkel replica (project)
Royal Enfield Bullet 500

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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#479 Post by RuZty » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:34 pm

I have some stock '85 clip ons that I will never use again. They aren't perfect but the price is right (free), PM me your address and they are on the way.

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Re: Track Bike - Plan B

#480 Post by Questo vecchio rz » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:53 pm

RuZty wrote:I have some stock '85 clip ons that I will never use again. They aren't perfect but the price is right (free), PM me your address and they are on the way.
Dude! There ya go! Now your gonna Rock it!

That was pretty awesome of the guy!
Banshee (Baja) race bike,+ 2 A Arms,L.E.Ds, Toomey, +4 stroker IMS tank, run flats.
96 GSXR SRAD, Future Yoshimura rep.
85 custom Tri-Z
RZ/YZR bike(project)
86 VFR750 RC24 Merkel replica (project)
Royal Enfield Bullet 500

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