Drag Bike - Plan B

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Re: Drag Bike - Plan B

#691 Post by Off Road » Sun Nov 12, 2023 3:08 am

While I was thinking about the dilemma, I heard the track officials call all bikes to the staging lanes, for an open Test and Tune session.
When I heard the announcement, I was confused, because the bikes only had 1 Test and Tune scheduled, and I had already participated.
As I thought about it, it occurred to me that it had been a long, long, long time since I had heard anything run down the track.
I asked some people what was happening, and they said that one of the bikes oiled down the track, and the Test and Tune was delayed while they cleaned up the mess.
They had just finished cleaning and were going to run the rest of the Test and Tune session for the bikes.
Awesome, count me in. Another run meant another chance to get information on the bike.
I jumped into my leathers and headed to the staging lanes.

I was paired against my friend Logan, on his Harley, and he usually runs high 12 seconds.
The light turned green and I had a slow reaction time, so Logan got out in front of me.
I did have a pretty good launch and the front wheel came up about 2” or 3”, as I powered through 1st gear.
I shifted to 2nd and the wheel popped up for a microsecond. It only came up about 1/2”, just high enough to clear the pavement.
I shifted to 3rd gear and quickly closed in on the Logan. I shifted into 4th gear and passed him just after the 1/8 mile.
I grabbed 5th gear and, after that, Logan had a good view of the RZ’s taillight for the rest of the run.

I went back and picked up my time slip and, as I pulled away from the timing shack, the bike stuttered, stumbled, and coughed.
Then it started running fine again, for a few seconds. Then it stumbled, and then it ran.

I instantly determined, without any evidence, or proof, that the bike was running out of gas.
The last time I topped up the fuel was during Qualifying in Prince George.
I only put in 3 liters (0.75 gal), and I had made 12 runs down the track since then.

I limped the bike back to my pit and checked the EGT’s before shutting it off.
Right Cylinder – 582*C and Left Cylinder – 600*C

Hmmm, and WTH.
My 1st run of the day was at 11:10 am and my 2nd run was at 12:06 pm.
On the 2nd run, the EGT’s, on both cylinders, were lower than the EGT’s from the 1st run.
The Right cylinder was 12*C lower, and the Left cylinder was 20*C lower.
It is interesting to note, that I have never, in 6 seasons of racing, seen EGT’s this low at the end of the 1/4 mile.

I shut the bike off, peeled off my gear, and took a look at my time slip.
I instantly determined, without any evidence, or proof, that I might be the smartest person on the planet.
60 Foot . – 1.94 sec
1/8 mile – 7.93 sec @ 90.33 mph
1/4 mile – 12.38 sec @ 107.61 mph

I finally managed to operate the clutch, launch the bike, and string together a good run.
I got a 60’ time that was less than 2.0 seconds.
This resulted in an 1/8 mile time of less than 8.0 seconds.
I also set another new record for mph in the 1/8 mile, with a speed of 90.33 mph.
And my 1/4 mile time was awesome.
It was over 0.23 seconds quicker than any of my other runs on the weekend.
It was a new personal ET record at the Medicine Hat track.
And it was only the 2nd time that the RZ had run the 1/4 mile in less than 12.40 seconds.

I think I’ll install a new spark plug before every race.

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Re: Drag Bike - Plan B

#692 Post by Off Road » Sun Nov 12, 2023 3:09 am

After showing my time slip to everybody within shouting distance, I put 3 liters of fuel in the bike, so that it was ready for the Elimination rounds.
Then I sat down in the shade, and went back to the task of picking a Dial-in Time.
And this last run was not as helpful as I had hoped it would be.

OK, the bike was fast, but it was only noon. The Elimination rounds wouldn’t happen for at least 2 hours, and the day would be hotter by then, so the RZ would run a bit slower.
How much slower? I didn’t know. That was the information I was supposed to get from my Qualifying, and Test and Tune runs.
But, I wasted my runs with bad launches.

It was 2:00 pm when they called the bikes to the staging lanes for the 1st round of Eliminations, and I still hadn’t written a Dial-in Time on my bike.
I was pitted beside my friend Bruce, and he picked a Dial-in Time of 12.60 seconds.
The RZ is usually 0.10 seconds quicker than his Victory, but I really wasn’t comfortable with a Dial-in time of 12.50 seconds.
I figured the bike would definitely be quicker than 12.50 seconds.
And, from previous experience at this track, I was pretty certain that it wouldn’t run faster than 12.42 seconds.
(However, when I got up that morning, I was pretty certain that the RZ wouldn’t run quicker than 12.40 sec)
When I heard the 1st pair of bikes make their run down the track, I knew it was now or never.
I dug out my marker, wrote 12.4, on the tank, and paused to rethink the last number.
As I did, I started laughing at the absurdity of stressing over a few hundredths of a second, considering the quality of my riding skills. :smt005

I wrote a Dial-in Time of 12.45 seconds on the tank, fired up the bike, and headed off to the staging lanes.
On the way to staging, I started thinking that I might have picked the wrong time.
I had a feeling that the bike was going to run a 12.43, and I was going to break out.


In the 1st round of the Hot Twin Eliminations, I was racing a guy named Jay on his Harley.
He had a dial-in Time of 12.40, so that gave me an enormous 0.05 second head start.
My light turned green, and I had a pretty good launch.

I shifted to 2nd, whacked the throttle, and the bike stuttered, stumbled and coughed.
Then it started running fine again, then it stumbled, and then it finally took off and ran great.

I shifted into 3rd gear, pinned the throttle until I saw the shift light, and grabbed 4th gear.
I pinned the throttle and the bike took off, but only for a fraction of a second, and then it stumbled, then it ran good for a bit, then it stumbled, and then it ran.

By this time, I was sort of coasting past the 1/8 mile and I knew the race was over, so I shifted into 5th gear and eased up on the throttle.
The bike was coughing/running/stumbling, and I was just hoping it would stay running long enough to make to the return road, so I could get off the track.

I pulled onto the return road and when the rpm’s dropped down, the bike died.
I shut off the ignition, coasted to a stop, and quickly called a team meeting.
Pilot: [smilie=dunno.gif]
Mechanic: [smilie=dunno.gif]
Crew Chief: [smilie=dunno.gif]
After a minute of cursing and finger pointing, I turned the bike on, and kicked it over.
It fired on the 1st kick and sounded fine, so I dropped it in gear and let out the clutch.
The bike started coughing and stumbling, so I ran in the clutch and feathered the throttle, but it didn’t help, the bike died.

After a few minutes, I turned the bike on, kicked it over and it started right up.
I let out the clutch and the bike took off and seemed to run fine. I took the rpm’s to around 4000 rpm and shifted to 2nd.
I was cruising along at 4000 or 5000 rpm and, out of curiosity, looked down to see what the EGT gauge was reading.
I don’t remember what the EGT numbers were, but as I looked, the light on the gauge went really dim, and the engine instantly started stumbling.
Then the light got bright and the engine ran fine. The light went dim again, and the engine started stumbling.
This happened a few times before light went out completely and the engine stopped running.

And I instantly realized, due to an abundance of evidence and proof, that I might be the dumbest person on the planet.
The 1st time the bike stumbled; I assumed it was a fuel issue.
I never checked to confirm that there really was a fuel problem.
After I put gas in the bike, I never checked to see if that actually cured the issue.
And, as it turned out, it didn’t.
So my new assumption was that I had an electrical issue, either a dead battery or a loose connection.

I managed to limp the bike back to the staging lanes, but that was it.
I told the track officials that I wouldn’t be able to race in Street class, and then had my friend Dave tow me back to my pit.

After getting out of my gear, and having a good cry over my misfortune, I decided to dig out my voltmeter and see what I could find.
With the Ignition Off, the battery read 9.2 volts.
When I turned the Ignition On, and put power to the ETG gauge, CDI, and taillight, the battery voltage dropped to 6.4 volts.
Line 8, on page 1, of the 11 page Zeel manual, clearly states that the minimum operating voltage is 7 volts.
And I believe the manual is correct, because I kicked the bike over quite a few times, and it didn’t even think about running.

I suspected that the reg/rec, or the stator, had stopped functioning.
But, I couldn’t test the charging voltage, when the bike was running, because I couldn’t get the bike to run.
OK, I could have used my buddy’s starter cart and boosted the bike to get it running, but at the time, I just didn’t give a fat rat’s ass, what the problem was.

I hung out for the rest of the day and watched all the races. Then I loaded the RZ into the trailer, and headed for home.
The 2023 racing season was over.

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Re: Drag Bike - Plan B

#693 Post by Off Road » Sun Nov 12, 2023 3:09 am

It was a long, rather somber trip home, and I had plenty of time to reflect on the past race season.
I’ll give you the quick recap, and then I’ll stfu, and quit wasting your time.

I assumed that I didn’t hurt the motor.
And I assumed that the RZ had a charging issue.
I was upset that, for the first time in six seasons of racing, the RZ lost due to a mechanical issue.
But, shit happens. 40 year old parts fail. That’s racing.
I’ve seen quite a few people at the track wearing shirts that say, Race it – Break it – Fix it – Repeat.

And I was a bit pissed by the fact that the electrical issue was completely avoidable.
When the bike stuttered the 1st time, I should have checked it over to verify the problem, and confirm that everything else was working.
I’d have seen the low voltage and would have known there was an electrical issue.
Then I could have put the battery on the charger for 2 hours and the bike would have run fine.
But, no, instead of spending 5 or 10 minutes troubleshooting, I jumped to a conclusion, and it resulted in me being declared the Loser, on the official track time sheet.

I wasn’t happy with the way things ended in Medicine Hat, and it made me focus on the negative aspects of the season
It was definitely the worst race season that I’ve ever had.
I’ve went to 6 events this year and entered in 2 classes at each race.
I was in 12 Elimination rounds, and I was eliminated 12 times.
2 losses due to Red Lights (0.007 and 0.029 seconds too fast)
2 losses due to Slow Reaction Times
3 losses due to Missed Shifts
3 losses due to Breakouts (0.008, 0.082 and 0.097 seconds too fast)
2 losses due to Mechanical Failures (Battery issue)

If I ignore the mechanical failures, then half my losses were due to slow reaction times or missed shifts.
I lost because I made a mistake.

I had 3 losses due to break out’s, because the RZ ran too fast. Awww. Boo hoo. My motorcycle’s too fast.
But, knowing how fast your bike will run, and picking an accurate Dial-in Time, is a kinda the whole point of Bracket Racing.
I picked the wrong Dial-in Times and lost because I made a mistake.
Still, it kinda hurts when you lose the race by a time that’s measured in single-digit milliseconds.

I had 2 losses due to red lights, and one of them happened like this:
I pushed the bike forward and stopped when the front tire blocked the timing beam, and turned on the Staged light.
The yellow lights came on – I dropped the clutch – The bike moved approx. 7” and unblocked the timing beam.
But, somehow, in all the confusion, I managed to unblock the beam 0.007 seconds before the Green light turned on.
If I would have been 1/100 of a second slower, I’d have had an absolutely incredible Reaction Time of 0.003 seconds.

So, once again, the difference between a huge success, and a dismal failure, is a few milliseconds.
But this year, none of the close calls went my way. I just couldn’t win any races.
I kept making deposits into the Luck Bank, but didn’t get to make any withdrawals.
It’s funny, when you win by 10 or 20 milliseconds; it’s because of your great riding skill.
But, when you lose by 10 or 20 milliseconds; it’s due to bad luck.

I really don’t think bad luck had much to do with this years’ lack of success.
I lost my races, because I had slow reaction times, I made mistakes riding the bike, and I picked the wrong Dial-in Times.
So, basically, I’m just not a very good drag racer and, it sucks to be me.

However, as I drove West, listening to the low drone of the engine, and watching the sun set behind the Rocky Mountains, the voices calmed down,
I mellowed out, and I realized that the race season also had a number of good points.

First off, the RZ set few new records.
- A new ET record, for the Prince George track, with a 1/4 mile time of 12.50 seconds.
- A new ET record, for the Medicine Hat track, with a 1/4 mile time of 12.38 seconds.

The bike also set some new all time records this year.
- Fastest ever 330’ time of 5.10 seconds
- Fastest ever 1/8 mile time of 7.86 seconds
- Fastest ever 1/8 mile speed of 90.33 mph
- Fastest ever 1/4 mile time of 12.29 seconds


In addition, I had a pretty good Summer.
I was fortunate enough to spend 2 weeks at the race track, hanging out with some really incredible people, while enjoying some of the nicest weather on the planet.
I got some fresh air, some sunshine, and a little bit of exercise.
And, I had a few good laughs, a ton of fun, and a lot of excitement.

So now what? Do I spend what’s left of the family fortune and go racing in 2024?
I suspect the results will be pretty much the same as the 2023 race season.
I’ll hang out with some terrific people
I’ll have a lot of fun and excitement
The RZ will be fast
I’ll probably lose because I’m not a very good drag racer.

Ya, I can live with that. :smt003

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Re: Drag Bike - Plan B

#694 Post by kenny » Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:13 am

Crank winding is when the ignition timing on the right cylinder is firing to early due to there being a delay induced by crank twist under load. Its not a crank out of true just a thing that can happen due to load and torque. This can happen even on a welded crank. The effect is it a temp differential due to the ignition timing. I know that Ignitech race2 units have a compensation setting to bring it back into line. I hope this helps

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Re: Drag Bike - Plan B

#695 Post by JonW » Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:48 am

Superb report as ever Steve.

Im now wondering about an actual blinking competition... that was what you were suggesting wasnt it? :D

Of course you go back next year! We need these reports if nothing else.
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Re: Drag Bike - Plan B

#696 Post by kpke » Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:43 am

Great write up Steve all be it a bit disappointing. And yes, you must go back next year. And of course let us know what the problem is. I had the exact same thing happen while riding. Headlight quit working. Temp gauge stopped working. The fix was rewiring the 4 pin connector from the stator. Here is a short thread from the forum viewtopic.php?t=16777&hilit=stator

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Re: Drag Bike - Plan B

#697 Post by waltmil » Mon Nov 13, 2023 1:32 pm

Funny thing about luck, the more you practice, the luckier you get.
Red/White US '84, Spec II pipes, Y-boot w/K&N, Fox Shock, Mikuni carbs?

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Re: Drag Bike - Plan B

#698 Post by Off Road » Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:11 pm

kenny wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:13 am Crank winding is when the ignition timing on the right cylinder is firing to early due to there being a delay induced by crank twist under load.
Hi Kenny. Thanks for the information.
I'm running the Zeeltronic PDCI-D22 race ignition and it does not allow me to advance or retard idividual cylinders when using just a single pickup.

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Re: Drag Bike - Plan B

#699 Post by Off Road » Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:41 pm

Thanks to Ken and Jon, and the other folks out there, for following along on the adventure.
It was a somewhat disappointing season, because I’m pretty competitive, maybe overly competitive.
When I enter a competition, I want to win, and show everyone that I can do this better than them.
I have no problem with losing when I’ve done my best and got beat by someone who did better.
But I really don't like losing because I made a mistake, and last year I made too many mistakes.

So, the plan for next year will be to make less mistakes and win more races.
As a reminder, I’m thinking of putting a decal on the top of my tank that says. “Don’t F*ck Up”. :smt003

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Re: Drag Bike - Plan B

#700 Post by Off Road » Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:56 pm

Off Road wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 3:09 am It was a long, rather somber trip home, and I had plenty of time to reflect on the past race season.
I assumed that I didn’t hurt the motor.
And I assumed that the RZ had a charging issue.
After getting the RZ back to the shop and charging the battery, I started the bike and discovered that the charging system was definitely not working.
I tested the stator, as per the manual, and the resistance readings were correct.
I installed a new reg/rec and fired the bike up again. Problem solved.
The charging system is putting out 13.85 VDC at an idle and 14.15 VDC when the engine gets to 2000 rpm. :smt023
JonW wrote: Mon Oct 09, 2023 9:09 am ... but i'd already be suspecting its already needing a rebuild at this point... Thats no reason to have it go bang tho, racing is exy enough without a bigger bill. :(
Just need to locate some popcorn for Medicine Hat Ep. 2!
When I was at the Medicine Hat races, I thought that the motor was still in pretty good shape.
It ran strong, and I was really hoping that I wouldn’t seize it. But, if I did, it wouldn’t have been the end of the world.
I work at a bike shop, so I get discounted prices on parts, and don’t pay anything for the cylinder boring.
Rebuilding the RZ’s top end, using oem base gaskets and a couple of Wiseco piston kits, would only cost me about $275.00 Can ($200.00 US).

Here’s what I know about the motors’ history for the last couple of decades.
- In 2008, the motor was rebuilt by the previous owner, using new oem 64.25 mm pistons.
- In 2009, I purchased the motor/bike. I kept the motor but sold the rest of the RZ.
I installed a Slinger head and, at the same time, pulled the cylinders and had them honed.
I only did this because the bike/motor came with a spare set of new oem rings.
- In 2013, the motor was installed in my Purple Project.
I tested the compression at that time and the Left cylinder was 115 psi, and the Right cylinder was 120 psi.
I ran the motor on the street for 4 summers, and put 13,250 km (8,230 miles).
- In 2016, I pulled it out of the bike and stored it in my basement for 4 years.
- In 2020, the motor was installed in the drag bike, and made 50 runs down the track that year.
- In 2021, the motor made 45 runs down the track.
At the end of the 2021 season, I checked the engine compression, and it was exactly the same as it was in 2013.
The Left cylinder was 115 psi, and the Right cylinder was 120 psi.
- In 2022, the motor made 50 runs down the track.
- In 2023, the motor made 70 runs down the track.

- On Nov.12/23, after this years’ race season was over, I checked the engine compression again.
The Left cylinder was 114 psi, and the Right cylinder was 117 psi.

So, after running this motor for 8000 miles on the street, and then making over 200 runs down the track, the compression dropped 1 psi on the Left cylinder, and 3 psi on the Right cylinder.

I’m happy with those compression numbers, considering that the elevation in Calgary is 3428 feet (1045 meters) above sea level.
At sea level, the compression readings would be about 127 psi and 130 psi.


All in all, pretty good news.
The electrical issue has been solved, and the engine doesn’t need any major repairs.

As far as I know, I only have to do 3 things to the RZ, so that it’s ready to race next year.
- I have to remove, clean, and reinstall the intake manifolds and V-Force reeds, using some new intake gaskets.
- I want to install a new set of spark plugs.
- And I need to lube the chain.

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Re: Drag Bike - Plan B

#701 Post by waltmil » Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:54 pm

I would pull the cylinders and check the rod clearance. You're going to have to do a pressure/vacuum test anyway. Old motocross idiom, they always run best just before they blow.
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Re: Drag Bike - Plan B

#702 Post by JonW » Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:22 pm

Agree with Walt, since gaskets and fluids isnt a big cost for you (working in the shop) this would be good insurance?

Plus no biggie to stick new rings and hone if nothing else. I suspect the lost compression is ring wear.

I like the old idiom, Ive been there and seen that happen etc.
80 XT500 Supermoto!
81 RD350LC Resto
82 RD421LC Hybrid
82 RD350LC decapitation project
82 RD250LC JDM '251LC' YPVS
83 RZ350 Resto
84 RZ500 Resto
85 RZ350 F1 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Resto
86 RZ350 F2 Hybrid

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Re: Drag Bike - Plan B

#703 Post by Off Road » Tue Nov 28, 2023 3:26 am

Thanks to Jon and Waltmilt for your input. You guys are correct.
I have also heard that idiom and have had it happen to me personally.
Off Road wrote: Mon Nov 20, 2023 11:56 pm So, after running this motor for 8000 miles on the street, and then making over 200 runs down the track, the compression dropped 1 psi on the Left cylinder, and 3 psi on the Right cylinder.
I was a bit surprised that after that many runs, the engine compression had only dropped a few psi, because I have not been kind to this engine.
On the vast majority of my runs, I follow the same start-up routine/procedure.
And it’s probably not the ideal way to treat a 40 year old motor.
- I start the bike in my pit area and let it warm up for a couple of minutes, while I put on my helmet and gloves.
- I ride it 500-600 feet, (180-210 meters), through the pit area to the staging lanes, and shut it off
- I slowly push the bike forward, through the staging lanes, until I’m at the front of the line.
- When I get to the front, and it’s my turn to race, I fire up the bike and pull onto the track.

A friend of a friend came to the races in Prince George and took videos of some of my runs.
The videos show what happens after I get waved onto the track.

Aug. 26, 2023 – Test and Tune - Run 1 – 11:54 am

This was the 1st time that the bike had run since the race in Rimby, which was 5 weeks before the Prince George race.
When I’m doing the burnout, the bike coughs up a pretty good cloud of smoke, before it even starts to clean out.
On the up side, the air was cool, the engine was stone cold, and the bike was making some good power.
This was my best run of the weekend, and my best run ever at the Prince George track.
I set new personal fast times for the 60’, 330’, 1/8 mile, and 1/4 mile.
60 Foot . – 1.92 sec
1/8 mile – 8.00 sec
1/4 mile – 12.53 sec @ 106.8 mph


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N54KGS ... drive_link


Aug. 26, 2023 – Test and Tune - Run 2 – 12:06 pm
Off Road wrote: Wed Sep 27, 2023 1:29 am On my 2nd test and tune run, the bike launched hard, went 3 or 4 feet, almost stalled, and then took off.
That stumble added 0.2 sec to my 60’ time, 0.3 sec to my 1/8 mile, and 0.4 sec. to my 1/4 mile time.
Test and Tune Run 2
60 Foot . – 2.14 sec
1/8 mile – 8.36 sec @ 87.0 mph
1/4 mile – 12.97 sec @ 103.6 mph
I really don’t have much that I can add to my original comments. I had a bad launch and a poor run.
The only good thing about the run was the fact that the engine was warmer and the smoke show was smaller. :smt003

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14YWj3o ... drive_link

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