Lathe advise please

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Shaftoflame
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Lathe advise please

#1 Post by Shaftoflame » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:21 pm

Hi All

Just been given a (small) amount of money and thought I would get myself a lathe - second hand - I may be biased but after a drill and bench grinder I feel that a lathe is the most use.

Now it is a few years since I flew a lathe and have forgotten loads. So ...

Would I be better to look at a second hand engineering (proper) lathe or one of these new Chineese made domestic jobbies.

What do I need. I feel that I would need 3 and 4 jaw chucks, face plate. 4 way tool post (nice but not essential?) Metric and imperial screw cutting. line and cross feed and angle feed

End stock, live and dead centre, MT drill chuck


Coolent pump and tray?

What is the difference between the types of bed (I have seen flat and V beds and have no idea)

Are all chucks and drive spindles hollow? I have only ever used hollow ones - allows long bar to be fed through.

Any thoughts, advice, abuse etc welcome

Ta

R
Dreaming is not a failing, it is what makes us climb bigger mountains, make better bikes and love. However it can take up an inordinate amount of time...

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smurph
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#2 Post by smurph » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:31 pm

I had a similar quandary a few years ago. The problem I ran into was finding a decent used lathe that wasn't just so worn out! I mean, you would have to spend big bucks and lots of time restoring before you could really get to use it.

The lathes that were in decent shape, meaning only a couple of things wrong, were priced beyond reach. So I opted for a new Asian lathe thinking that at least I would get something that would not require overhauling before use. As it turned out, I am happy with my decision.

I bought a Kent KLS-1340A lathe. It is "Kent USA" in name only and several other lathe distributors put their name on this particular lathe as well. But the Kent version came with a lot of features that I wanted. Brake, coolant pump, and chip tray, mainly. And a new lathe like this usually comes with all of the chucks, faceplates, centers, and steady and follow rests that you will need to get started. I have it wired for single phase 60Hz 220 current. But it will operate on 50Hz or 110v too. A 3 phase option is available. The center of the chucks are open, as well as the spindle itself. 1.5" in diameter.

I really wanted some lathe that was of good "old iron", but for the money, the asians can't be beat. Just look through the selection and get one that meets your needs. Also, check some of the machine web sites like http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/ and search on the particular model you are interested in. They all have little flaws. My Kent had a wiring problem, actually a transformer grounding problem, that kept it from working. I fixed it up in a matter of minutes. I did also chunk the 4-way tool post that came with it in favor of a nice Aloris type wedge tool post.

Personally, I would not go smaller than 12x36 in an Asian lathe. Bigger is always better as the more metal in the lathe, the sturdier it is and the bigger cuts you can take. I hate wasting time making repetitive .010" cuts. Look at the machine weights as even lathes that are the same size vary drastically. In other words, don't go for the lightest machine. Also, most any lathe of this size has a "modern" bed with Vs. I had a flat bed lathe once, and I didn't like it.

But, depending on where you live, you may get lucky and find a gem in a used lathe for a decent price. But the quality of the Asian lathes has definitely gotten better if you decide to go that route. I'm very happy with my machine.

Between my mill and lathe, I would say that I do use my lathe a little bit more. Not much more. But I find the lathe is more condusive to making motor cycle parts like steering stems, wheel spacers, and pivot tubes. On my current RZV500 project, I have made 4 parts with the lathe (pivot tube, steering stem, pivot bolt, and engine mount bolt) and 2 parts with the mill (axel chain adjusters). So getting a lathe first is not a bad idea.

Steve


Steve
Fuel Injected RZ350

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Jeff B
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#3 Post by Jeff B » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:39 pm

Smurph has some good advice. Don't buy old junk. However our local tech school has a silent auction every spring and sells some nice (and some junky) old machine tools. I'd bet many schools around the country do the same. My brother-in-law bought a lathe and a mill from the school. He's quite happy with them. Students spend more time staring at the machines than they do running them. I know, I've been there. They can be a little beat up, but they usually aren't warn out. Watch out for the junk though. They recieve machines from shops as donations that usually are warn out and go straight to the auction warehouse.

I wouldn't use coolant at home. It's messy and if you don't use it every day it gets sour.

A foot brake is nice.

Look for power cross feed along with linear feed and threading.

I don't recall ever using a lathe that didn't have a vee style bed, so that's what I'd look for.

Some lathe's the first little bit of the bed can be removed so you can turn larger diameters so long as the parts are short. Nice, but I've never seen the option being used.

rzbill
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Lathes

#4 Post by rzbill » Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:00 am

I've been researching lathes for home use for a couple of years. Always been just out of reach due to the "is it really that important vs. everything else" internal debate.

Anyhow, if you have looked at the chinese stuff, you are bound to be familiar with the various 7x10 garbage models that are only useable after fixing what ails them.

However, there is a recent addition that has come out, called an 8x12 that is significantly better in many ways.

It is marketed by:
http://www.lathemaster.com/

The follwing web site is by a customer. I met this gentleman on a business trip to Dallas and got a chance to see the lathe. It's the one for me if I ever buy.
http://www.tedatum.com/thms/lathemaster.html

Good hunting gentlemen!
Bill Pendergrass
'84 RZ500N Modified
'73 R60/5 Also Modified
RV7A Completed in 2012 and flying well.
http://websites.expercraft.com/rzbill/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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#5 Post by smurph » Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:27 am

Hey, that looks like a nice little lathe. Much nicer looking than the 7x10 stuff.

But it missing a few key features that I require in a lathe. 1) There is no cross slide power feed. 2) The saddle is only powered by the lead screw. 3) the lead screw can only be reversed with a gear change.

But these are features that every lathe of this size/type lack. Another thing is the slowest speed is 125 RPM. A novice home machinist will have a devil of a time threading at the relativly high speed of 125 RPM. All of these "issues" come from consessions that had to be made to keep the size small. So it's not a terrible thing. A world of parts can be made with lathe like this. But I would still suggest that anyone serious about getting a lathe also look at the bigger machines. But I also understand that the price may be prohibitive. I didn't eat well for a year after I bought my lathe. :grin:

Bill, I took a look at your web pages and here is what I would suggest for you. A guy with your tinkering talents absolutley positively NEEDS a lathe at home. Quit putting it off and get one. You will never regret it and you will have loads of fun. And all of the rest of us will benifit from your play time because you are bound to come up with more RZ500 stuff!

Steve
Fuel Injected RZ350

rzbill
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All good points

#6 Post by rzbill » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:00 pm

Steve,
You are right about the power cross feed. I have not found a lathe in my price range yet that has that feature. I am basically scared of all the used stuff because you never know whether it is totally shot.

There is a lathe at work that I can use, but it is a total piece of crap. The jaws are messed up and you *CANNOT* unchuck your work without loosing your center. I got tired of dealing with it. I did make some parts for the RZ, but it was a real struggle.

As far as threading on the little lathes, your e-mail reminded me of a trick I saw on a users site a year or so ago. He made a big crank handle so that he could turn the lathe by hand. That was his threading speed.

Thanks for the compliments on my work. I think its true for many of us that if it weren't for this gearhead stuff to focus on, we would go stir crazy.
I'd like to post some more things on my bike site, but my "free" web space is nearly all used up, plus my Mickeysoft Frontpage authoring software has lost its brain and won't talk to the server anymore. I have to do manual changes now and its a pain in the @$$. So its hard to clean house.

There is a model machining show near my house in Jan. Here are some pics from last year. The guy was here again this year. It DOES run, by the way. Took him 11 years. Awesome.

http://userweb.suscom.net/~rzbill/images/Merlin1.jpg
http://userweb.suscom.net/~rzbill/images/Merlin2.jpg
http://userweb.suscom.net/~rzbill/images/Merlin3.jpg

Sorry if this is old news. I may have posted this last year. I'm still amazed.
Bill Pendergrass
'84 RZ500N Modified
'73 R60/5 Also Modified
RV7A Completed in 2012 and flying well.
http://websites.expercraft.com/rzbill/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Dream50.com
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Re: All good points

#7 Post by Dream50.com » Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:34 am

rzbill wrote:Steve,

There is a model machining show near my house in Jan. Here are some pics from last year. The guy was here again this year. It DOES run, by the way. Took him 11 years. Awesome.

http://userweb.suscom.net/~rzbill/images/Merlin1.jpg
http://userweb.suscom.net/~rzbill/images/Merlin2.jpg
http://userweb.suscom.net/~rzbill/images/Merlin3.jpg
WOW...That thing is cool!
Image

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Jeff B
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#8 Post by Jeff B » Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:21 pm

It's not often you see a motor with fuel lines as big as exhaust pipes!

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Jeff B
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#9 Post by Jeff B » Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:24 pm

I don't recomend buying a lathe from this company, but they do have some good buys. Be very careful!! I purchased some HSS drills from them and they are all warped. Fine for a hand drill, but not for a lathe. Only buy their stuff if it can't possibly be screwed up. One exception, I bought the 2 of the 12" dial calipers (home and work) and I'm very happy with the quality for $27.95. It's not as smooth as a $200 caliper, but it repeats within .002 of an inch. One more warning, large items get shipped on a pallet in the back of a semi trailer which is very expensive. I know a guy that paid $40 to ship a $40 tool box.

www.use-enco.com

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#10 Post by smurph » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:20 pm

I "use-enco" all of the time. :grin: They have a nice web interface that lets you find the right stuff pretty quickly. However, keep in mind that the are NO stellar deals on machine equipment. You pretty much get what you pay for. They offer the same thing in various price/grades. I bought a set of the cheap drills too but I bought them more for the index than anything else. Then I spent the big bucks on a set of nice cobalt bits later on. I use the cheap bits for fodder and replace them with higher quality bits as they wear out or break.

And most machine equipment is going to be heavier or bigger than UPS will ship. Even a 6" mill vise will cost you plenty to get it shipped. :sad: Call it a hazzard of the trade. I've been wanting a rotary table and I keep looking for one locally because it costs a bundle to ship any table over 8". There is just not much you can do about it unless you live right next to some machine equipmnet wharhouses. (non-existant in the S.E. USA.)

For anything small enough not to have to go by truck shipment, hop on over to the Home Shop Machinists Buliten Board and get the Enco free shipping code. Just search on "enco shipping" and get the latest post. :grin: It's good for one shot per month. So make sure you order all you need for the month!

I've had the chance to see some of Enco's lathes. They are the same Asian lathes that everybody else sells but they are painted or blue. Their cheaper 13x40 lathe is identical to the 13x40 Birmingham lathe, etc...

Steve
[/url]
Fuel Injected RZ350

Shaftoflame
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#11 Post by Shaftoflame » Tue Mar 07, 2006 9:19 am

Hi Guys

Well I read all the suggestions and then ignored them - not really - have bought myself an old Brit lathe. A lot smaller than I was thinking but has all the nice stuff like 240V motor and can be hauled in the back of a car not a truck - would not get it to the house let alone in the workshop if too big. Currently still getting it set just right - close but not close enough. Have made up a few bushes etc but not quite consentric enough for me - could be my turning.

Has had a power feed for the main slide but not the cross slide fitted by the previous owner and has electronic micrometer slides fitted - makes it easy to work mm for the Jap and Euro stuff in the shed and inch for the Triton and Bonnie, with out my poor maths getting in the way. Have been trying to pick up a part off post and a vertical slide but they are mucho expensive new and go for too much on ebay. I can see bullet biting and lots of sexual favours for the boss before she agrees to letting me buy one!

Oh Myfor ML7 btw - 1960's but dead sweet on the slides etc, offset tail stock, metric and imperial thread cutting, proper tumbler reverse, gap bed etc. I like it - now about that milling machine....

Thanks for all your suggestions - they did inform my decision, thanks

R
Dreaming is not a failing, it is what makes us climb bigger mountains, make better bikes and love. However it can take up an inordinate amount of time...

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84rzv500r
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#12 Post by 84rzv500r » Sat Mar 11, 2006 2:46 am

Hey Bill!!

It gets cold here in the winter....

A couple of our latest projects CNC Plasma Cutter

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and 2 axis CNC Mill

Image

I also picked up a Miller 210 Mig and a 200 TIG unit...

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#13 Post by smurph » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:38 am

I just picked up some nice linear ways complete with ball screws and servo motors, a servo driven rotary table and a SM400 controller! It will make a nice 4 axis CNC mill when I'm done with it.

The only thing that gets me more excited than 2 stroke motorcycles is machines to make parts for them! :grin:

Steve
Fuel Injected RZ350

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Jeff B
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#14 Post by Jeff B » Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:50 pm

The only thing that gets me more excited than 2 stroke motorcycles is machines to make parts for them! :grin:
[/quote]


You should see the Mazak V-515\40 that I run at work! 20in. by 40in. table, but only 15 horse. It'll lick 3/8" of prehardened tool steel off in one pass and contour holes round within .0005". I just wish I had more time to use it for my bike projects.

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Dream50.com
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Emco Maier F1 CNC Milling machine with a WELLSOFT upgrade

#15 Post by Dream50.com » Tue Sep 05, 2006 12:19 am

Hi All,
My apologizes in advance for posting an item for sale here but with my health failing continuously from ms I have decided to cut back considerably on the amount of ongoing projects I've got still unfinished.

One of which are my plans to start fabricating some small alloy bits here and there with a 3 axis cnc vertical mill I purchased about 6-9 months back and remembering this post I've decided to mention that I no longer will require this CNC mill and thought someone on the forum may have a use for it.

Below is the text from the original ad from which I purchased the machine. I have never used the mill since purchasing it and simply would like to recover as much of my original investment back as possible.

If your interested in the machine please call me at 281-844-0848 or 281-283-7130.

The CNC is located in Friendswood, Texas 77546

I am currently looking to get $3800

Thanks again,
Eric Osborn

OK, Here is the info relevent to the mill, including a few photos. Please email or call for additional pics..

Emco Maier F1 CNC Milling machine with a WELLSOFT upgrade.

This mill is a small CNC tabletop mill with cast iron frame, table and slides. It is extremely precise. I was using it with tolerances of .001. You can see the type of work I was doing for a company at the following website: http://www.cirrounds.com/. This mill can be used just like a full sized machine. The mill was converted to a WELLSOFT operating system, which can use unlimited code.(http://www.welsoft.co.uk/) I was using it with MasterCam, of which there is a post included, but there are also many other posts that can be used. The mill also includes three tool holders and five collets that are pictured. It also includes the operation manual for the WELLSOFT software. The WELSOFT software and hardware alone on this mill was $900.00, which I had professionally installed approximately 1 1/2 years ago. The mill uses a standard pentium one or better computer system for running the WELLSOFT software (computer not included). The package includes an RS232 cable for running it from your computer to the control. The control for the mill, as you can see in the pictures, is in excellent condition and is included with the mill. The machine was fully rebuilt by Amanus from North Carolina approximately 1 1/2 - 2 years ago. It's one of the nicest Emco mills I've ever seen. The ball screws and bearing are in perfect working order with a standard backlash of .001. The software compensates for this. . The table of the mill is flat and in perfect condition. The paint is in good condition. This machine was very well kept and is ready for years of work. The spindle motor and stepper motors are smooth running and quiet.

The machine is 110 Volts, Inch/Metric programming Horz or Vert Head position, Table Travel is X=7.87", Y=3.94", Z=7.87", Table size is 16.54" x 4.92", Max. Feed RAtge is appox. 23 IPM, .6 HP, Spindle Speed 0 to 2000 RPM.


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